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stephenmichaelso

Posted: Jun 20, 2013
From Topic: New Section: Outlines



Posted by Purveyor:
I didn't say that tools aren't important. I'm saying that tools don't "impart discipline". Do you disagree?


Yes, emphatically, I disagree. Give a set of plumber's tools to an electrician, in place of his own, and ask him if it won't mess up his mindset, or discipline, or workflow.

People attempting to learn and apply *real* GTD need GTD-specific tools. Otherwise, it ain't GTD ... it's just another to-do thingie masquerading as GTD. We have enough of those now.

what do you use for tracking big projects and big ideas?


LOL -- depends on what your definition of "big" is. I use ToodleDo, in combo with Ultimate To-Do List on my phone, for 80% of my GTD workflow. I use wjjsoft's myBase as a container for stuff that's more outliner- or reference-oriented; i.e. having a lot of hierarchy, links and/or attachments.
stephenmichaelso

Posted: Jun 20, 2013
From Topic: New Section: Outlines



Posted by Purveyor:

The app doesn't impart the GTD discipline because the app can't impart the discipline. [...] GTD is a mindset and a set of skills. It is independent of the tools that you use to develop the mindset and acquire the skills.


Purveyor, thanks for the reply, but that's just nonsense. Carpentry is a mindset for getting certain things done, but without the right tools, you're making huts out of sticks. Same with any other "mindset" for getting things done -- skills, discipine, and tools have to work together and mutually reinforce ... but effective tools are *very* important.

I agree with you about most people not doing real GTD, because most people don't want to read the books and inculcate the mindset. It's a real problem, because GTD has become an increasingly meaningless term ... it's tacked onto virtually every to-do app, most often by developers who want to sell, but who have also never read David Allen's books.

For many years, Allen tried to be tool-agnostic while the GTD ecosystem took root. Now he's realized that the heart and soul of GTD has been lost by the myriad of "GTD" apps that really aren't. See this link for his approach to rectifying: http://goo.gl/ygBAX
stephenmichaelso

Posted: Jun 20, 2013
From Topic: New Section: Outlines



Jake, thanks for your reply. You make excellent points, and I certainly can't argue with reusable outlines to improves processes and workflow.

I fear your statement "flexible enough to support any methodology," however.

GTD brings a lot of customers to you. Unfortunately, too many users don't really understand and internalize GTD concepts. (They want to do GTD, but don't want to read David Allen's books!) So if the app doesn't impart the GTD discipline, the user ends up disappointed in GTD, because he thinks he's doing it, but doesn't see the results.

Just my two cents ....
stephenmichaelso

Posted: Jun 19, 2013
From Topic: New Section: Outlines



Hoping that in your design goals that you have it as a criteria to stay true to GTD principles, and not introduce unnecessary feature sets & complexity to what is currently the best GTD app available.

IMO, it would be a huge mistake to morph into yet another online MSProject clone, at the expense of tight GTD logic and support. While I have nothing against outliners, once the corporate types start calling your new feature "WBS," and whining for more corporate complexity in that element, you'll be doomed.

What's going to happen is that users will end up doing duplicate data entry between outlines and task/subtask hierarchy, and lose focus (and time) in the jumping back and forth.

David Allen has always been a proponent of simpler lists, which you've already provided with folder, tasks & subtasks. Allen has taught that the more complex a list becomes, the less likely one is to "get things done."


This message was edited Jun 19, 2013.
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