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stuarts28

Posted: Jan 14, 2013
From Topic: 2012 In Review



Another year, but still no subtasks to subtasks :-(

Is this planned for 2013?
stuarts28

Posted: Jan 11, 2013



That isn't a good reason though. It is just a technical challenge.

I returned to Toodledo just recently after over a year of not using it, and have to say that I am very disappointed that subtasks to subtasks hasn't been added.

The hard facts are that the only feature I wanted in Pro was subtasks. That's the only reason I ever upgraded.

I suspect that 90% of users on here are the same.

So it is disproportionately important to both the users, and the bottom line of the developers.

Subtasks is the only must-have for me. And not being able to do the logical thing of nesting tasks within tasks is just stupid.

Are there any other To-Do programs that offer subtasks to subtasks? It seems like a pretty basic requirement to me.

This program has been under development for YEARS. Come on. Hire some programmers! Fix the most obvious, glaring omission from the program.
stuarts28

Posted: May 26, 2009



Am I missing something here?

I just sorted out a long list of subtasks to a particular task in excel.

I then tried adding them to beneath the task in Toodledo as subtasks.

The first 4 were in the right order on top of one another, but the 5th one then added itself to just beneath the task ie in the wrong order.

As Anders said, you can't change the order. So I tried deleting it and reinserting it, but it still ended up just below again. Which is useless.

This is very frustrating. It seems the subtasks is a total waste of time if you have more then four.

EDIT - Ok. Putting 01, 02, 03 etc etc before the name of the tasks and then sorting by task gets them in the right order. But it is still stupid that this kind of workaround is needed.


This message was edited May 26, 2009.
stuarts28

Posted: May 26, 2009



I can see why it would be listed as a top request.

I have a list of 400 to-do's and am trying to get down to the nitty gritty thought work, but am ending up having to sort the subtasks in the correct order in excel, before putting them in Toodledo one at a time. Which strikes me as kinda dumb, when it is supposed to be an organizational aid.

I really hope the many subtask problems get sorted soon.

I find myself battling with Toodledo, rather then working harmoniously with it at the moment.
stuarts28

Posted: May 26, 2009



The move hand function in subtasks is awful.

I have been trying for the last five minutes to move one task above another in a subtask, and it won't go in the right spot.

It is very clunky and temperamental.

How about implementing some up and down arrows, so it is an easy matter to move subtasks about without wasting lots of time trying to figure out the right place to 'drop' a task?
stuarts28

Posted: May 26, 2009



Toodledo - When will the updates to subtasks be released?
stuarts28

Posted: May 13, 2009



Hi,

Ok. I have been using Toodledo extensively now for about a week.

Tried the alternatives, but they all seemed to have issues.

Only the Milk - Nice looking. But doesn't do multi step projects very well.

Nozbe - Handles word wrapping much better then Toodledo, and also does projects more intuitively. But the interface is a bit too cluttered, and the search functionality is not as good. I tried it, but kept feeling like I was lost.

Thinking Rock - Out of the box it is better then Toodledo. More intuitive and the instructions are clearer. But it is a little restrictive, doesn't have the same depth (once you apply your brain to tweaking stuff), and is a desktop app (so no good if I go on holiday, or leave my desk)

Omnifocus and Things are apparently great. But I am on a PC, not a Mac. So both of those are out.

In the end I have opted for Toodledoo. And have got a Pro Plus Account as I want to add files to my projects.

I like Toodledo, but it does currently have a number of drawbacks that I would like to see fixed, hence this post:

I will probably think of others as I use it more, but for now here are 24 areas that I think need changing/improving/adding in to Toodledo.

1/ Word Wrap Needed! Their is no word wrap in grid mode, so that the end of tasks gets cut off. (this is a biggie and urgently needs fixing). I have mentionned this before, but am putting it here for the sake of completeness. One additional suggestion is to add a third view, 'Grid Mode' WITH word wrap. So that folk who are used to one line 'Grids' are still happy.

2/ The Booklet needs urgent work - The booklet picks up the text from the above, so when you print stuff out it misses out words (which makes it worthless in its current format unless you are happy to only see half a description) - Again. Linked to the above problem.

3/ Handles Projects in a clumsy way - Wrap the tabs! Elimate the 'More' Button - Their is no specific section for projects, so you have to figure out how to use one of three sections - Folders, Contexts or Goals to use in this way. And even when you do that, their is an annoying 'More' button, rather then just wrapping the tabs to the next line (As only the milk does for example). (ie so that you cannot see everything that is going on with just a glance)

4/ Should add folders on the fly - You cannot add folders on the fly, which is the obvious thing to do when you are adding a task, and deciding on its status. Instead, clicking 'Add Folder' takes you to the folders section. It would be much improved if you could simply click on a new line (like you can for example in Excel when you click on a new tab).

5/ Badly Needs 'Add a Subtask' functionality - Also, every task really needs the ability to have 'Add a Subtask' (which toodledo doesn't currently have) without having to create a new task, then drag it underneath which is a painful way of doing it. Again, this is a biggie. The whole process is made much more complicated because this is currently missing.

6/ Needs drag and drop - ie Their is no drag and drop for adding a task to a folder (which their is in Nozbe for example) ie Where a project is a folder, goal or context as opposed to a task and subtask where there is drag and drop in toodledo.

7/ Improve the notes functionality in Notebook - The notebook section only adds notes to folders, not goals or contexts or tags. It would also be useful to be able to add notes to tags as quite often these actually encompass a much broader project overview eg health, financial etc. And so are often the most obvious place to add notes too (Note - If the MindMap integration I suggest below was integrated, then this would also mean that one tag eg Health, could contain ALL the different mindmaps for that section - as opposed to being seperately attached to the individual projects eg
go to the gym, eat healthier, get a six pack etc. Allowing a more intuitive use of the program)

8/ Re-ordering the order of tabs is only available in Folders, not Contexts or Goals. So you have to plan ahead of time with Contexts and Goals what order to put stuff in. (clearly not ideal) - And even then, its only available in the main folder menu, not as a drag and drop, which would be better.

9/ No cluck thru from the Folders, Contexts and Goals sections (on the left menu) to the actual tasks (and their should be) ie For example I can see in the folder admin area that I have 21 health tasks, but I cannot just click on it and go to those tasks. Instead I have to click on 'To Do List', then click on
'Folder' at the top, then click on the 'Health' tab. That is a phaff. I should just be able to one click and be there.

10/ Tabs at the top is all well and good, but their could do with being a side menu for 'Projects'. In fact I would suggest an additional 'Project' tab area, distinct from the other sections, as currently all tasks are treated in the same way, and so you have to use a workaround to be able to distinguish between Projects, Tasks, Sub Tasks and Ideas. Their is a lot to be said for having the ability see what projects you have going on in the left (at least as an option)

11/ The print button could really do with 'Print Preview' functionality. So that you could preview your list, and be able to copy, cut and paste without needing to print it. (The booklet functionality has the potential to do this, but because it cuts off half the description, in practice it is not much use for this)

12/ Needs a Tag Cloud on EVERY page - Tags are an obvious way to sort things for most people. And it would be made much easier if Toodle implemented a tag cloud on the left that was viewable on every page. As it is though, tags are very regimented like all the other sections, and not very user friendly. Without being able to see tags on every page, they are MUCH LESS USEFUL.

13/ Ability to change to order of Tabs WITHOUT changeing the dropdown order - The order that items appear in the dropdowns and the order they appear at the top in the tabs is always the same. That is kind of annoying because it may be (especially with the horrible 'More' button making tabs so inaccessible) that you would want to have the tabs in a different configuration then the same items in the dropdown menus (ie so that they appear closer to the left)

14/ Widen the 'More' Button so text appears on one line, not several - Even in its current configuration there must be able to be something done to at least widen the 'More' dropdown. I have a number of goals that are like 'Business - Get More Sales Leads' and they always end up wrapping onto three lines each. The formatting looks awful and they are very hard to read. At least please widen it as a tempoary measure until you get rid of it entirely, and allow tabs to wrap (or at least give the option to do so 'Wrap Tabs')

15/ Needs the ability to have tasks/projects etc in different colours No use of colours currently. One really nice feature of Thinking Rock is that you can assign different colours to different tasks in folders. In effect then, when you view an 'All' tab, you would be able to see at a glance (if you set it up) what spread of tasks you have simply from the colour. It is also a scientific fact that viewing alternate lines in different colours significantly aids memory. So it would also help with the familiarisation process of knowing what you need to do.

16/ Needs the ability to set a task/project to a different font and font size Within the program, some 'tasks' are actually actions, and some are projects with subtasks. It would be nice to be able to set the ones that are projects to have a different font, font size, and colour so that when you view them as a long list they jump out at you. Currently all tasks look the same, so it is hard to differentiate them at a glance from the other tasks and subtasks.

17/ You can collapse sub-headings in say Folder view, and then click to sort on 'Goals'. But you cannot rearrange them. That would be nice to do, because then you could re-arrange the things you want to do in an overall category based on their importance on any particular day, without having to change the priority of every single item.

18/ Put the 'Star' link next to 'Classic' so it is available on every page - Stars are obviously really useful, because they are ubiquitous throughout every page. And a lot of folk use them as a handy 'Today' kind of list. However, it is currently a phaff to get to the 'Starred' page. You have to click back to the 'Main' tab, and then click on 'Starred' (assuming you remember its there). Instead, I think it would be good to have a little star next to 'Classic' on the main 'View By' menu at the top. So that this is easily accessible from every page.

19/ Put a additional 'T' next to 'Classic' on every page so you can see what you have to do 'Today' - As another suggestion you could also add 'T' (Stands for 'Today' or 'This Week' next to the '*' both in the main task area, and at the top next to 'Classic'. In that way you could go through your list quickly in your weekly or Daily review picking a whole longer list of tasks that you would ideally like to do, but realistically won't get around to in one day, and mark them as 'T' in the same way that the '*' is. The advantage of having another of these type of areas (In addition to the 'Starred' area) is that you could then click to go into the 'T' area, and mark the most impotant 'Must Do' items with a star. In that way you can reduce a massive list down to a couple of items very quickly, and avoid cluttering up your brain. But at the same time, only have to go back to the smaller 'T' list once you have completed the stars to choose some more to do.

20/ Needs the ability to select multiple tasks to assign to a folder, context etc - No multiple select feature currently. It would be good to be able to select multiple tasks at once and set them all to a certain folder or context.

21/ Would benefit greatly by being able to view Mind Maps within Toodledo - I extensively use Mind Maps to plan out the structure of projects and what the next steps are. As a Pro Plus User I can add this to the projects themselves, and I find this a great feature. However, what would be even better is if you could add in some compatibility so that mindmaps could be viewed directly from within Toodledo. Mindjet (Mind Manager) have a free API to allow programs just like Toodledo to do exactly that - Here is a deployment guide they have here - http://www.mindjet.com/pdf/pdf_eng/Mindjet_MindManager_Viewer_Deployment_Guide.pdf (This would also create a VERY compelling reason for people to upgrade to the Pro Plus version, and so I suspect would make you a lot more money once implemented)

22/ Import/Export needs another option to download both Tasks and completed tasks together, and some more explanation text - Import/Export works well, but currently it is split into two sections. The first exports/imports tasks as csv. The second imports/exports completed tasks as csv. This works fine. However, when I first did this I exported the list to excel to make some changes, and then re-imported it, but it simply added them all in again (ie 400 tasks became 800) I then nuked the tasks in the account settings, and re-imported. Which worked (thankfully), but did have the effect of also nuking the completed tasks which was regrettable.

I think you could do with adding a third option to download both tasks and completed tasks in one go; and add in a little explanation above the area to re-iterate that nuking the tasks kills BOTH tasks and completed tasks (that wasn't an intuitive thought for me at least); and that you need to export BOTH first if you want to save them. Doing that would have saved me from nuking my completing tasks without a backup (not a big deal after only a week, but would have been a disaster after 6 months or 2 years)

23/ Tags needs an extra 'Tags - Dropdown' Menu' - No drop down list for Tags - Personally I like being able to free flow sometimes with tags (as is currently the case); but even after a week I can see that having an addional menu item of 'Tags - Dropdown' would be REALLY useful. In essence I think you need two menus. The current one, for free flow on the fly tagging; and a second one which is a 'Tags - Dropdown' of all the tags currently used. This would benefit from having some kind of multi-select capability, so that you could select multiple tags from the dropdown. This, in combination with putting a tag cloud on every page, would mean that tags could then be used quite effectively on their own to manage Projects, and would definitely add an extra dimension to Toodledo.

24/ Tags in groups, Contexts in groups, Folders in Group Functionality Please - Many times you have projects that are part of larger projects, but need to be split up for best use's sake. Oftentimes these can be seen as contexts, but in practice even then there may be many contexts that really fit together. There are workarounds by utilising the contexts, folders, tags and goals in various sneaky ways together. But it would be better to be able to assign group funtionality. This is already being utilised in a crude way in the 'Goals' section by splitting goals into long term , mid term and short term. However, if it was implemented throughout the program, then it would aid to ever simplify workflow on days when that worked best, (ie see a group of tasks together) and yet have the ability to get down to specifics when that was required.


Ok. So, given those drawbacks, why Toodledo?

Well, basically, because it has three areas that can be user defined (folders, contexts and goals), which means that you can workaround many of the problems (but not things like page wrap, booklet problems, adding folders and subtasks on the fly etc - I do think a lot of things need work in toodledo) - Which the other systems I have tested seem not to be able to do.

It also has excellent search functionality. The filtering is great, and the import/export feature works well.

I think Toodledoo is flawed, but it does seem to be the best one around at the moment for 'real world' getting organised.

Though it is far from simple to think through how to use it, and there could really do with being some instruction videos to give people a clearer idea of how to use it.

I am still tweaking my own system of how to use it 'productively' myself.

In any case, those are some preliminary thoughts of areas in Toodledo that would benefit from some tweaking.

I like it, but those improvements would make it much easier to use in the real world where you have hundreds of tasks and projects to perform.

Regards,

Stuart
stuarts28

Posted: May 03, 2009



Hi Guys,

Yes. I tried that. But it only extends up to a certain length and no further (which I have already done)

The point is that I approached Toodledo from the perspective of GTD, so made a list of all the stuff I had to do, and then imported it.

I now have a list of 408 tasks, many of which I cannot see in the grid setting.

I personally think a word wrap feature is absolutely essential.

Otherwise the software gets in the way of actually doing the task its intended to do.
stuarts28

Posted: May 02, 2009



Hi,

I like toodledo, but playing around with it today there are two absolutely ESSENTIAL problems that need to be fixed:

1/ When looking at the To Do list in the grid setting it cuts off the end of the words in the task rather then word wrapping it down so that all the words are visible (as for example this forum post does when it reaches the end of a line)

For example:

I have one task which reads:

Make sure to 'Clean the grill' and make sure to tidy up loose ends at the end of every 50 minute session

But I can only actually see:

Make sure to 'Clean the grill' and make sure to tidy up loose ends at the end of every


In practice this makes the grid display unuseable, unless you change the way your brain works, and dramatically shorten the length of every thought you have.

Not very likely. So this urgently needs to be fixed.

It should simply word-wrap to the next line down so that all the text is visible.

2/ Because of problem 1 above it also makes the 'Booklet' feature unusable, because the same problems persists.

ie Instead of word wrapping at the end of a task it instead has ...

eg

Make progress on the Anderson project with Jaso...
Consider which brand of canoe to buy Philips or...

Which is ridiculous.

I rate these as fundamental fixes.

The grid view is much better to see everything at a glance, but currently I simply can't use it, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to read my tasks.

The same goes for the booklet.

Please fix these problems.

Regards,

Stuart
stuarts28

Posted: May 02, 2009
From Topic: Instruction Videos?



That would be good Vin.

If I do (eventually) figure out a workflow then I will see about cranking out one myself.

Its just a shame that I am going to have to spend the next few hours searching the GTD forum on here, and experimenting with the software, to create a procedure that I am sure others have already developed :-)

If anyone else has 'Video Tips' then please post a link to the video in here, and that way hopefully everyone can feed off others advice.
stuarts28

Posted: May 01, 2009
From Topic: Instruction Videos?



Hi Guys,

I like the look of Toddledo, but it seems quite complicated to actually figure out a workflow that works in the real world.

I am quite a visual person (as I am sure are many others) so wondered if there are any instruction videos showing step by step how this can be used?

Nozbe for example has a simple ten step video course freely available on their site:

http://www.nozbe.com/gtd/course

And I really need something similar for this.

I have searched this site, and youtube and google, but am yet to find a single video showing how people are making use of this to put GTD into action. (Or anything else for that matter - there aren't any anywhere as far as I can see)

Toodledo seems a bit clunky when I have played around with it, and text help files are not nearly as useful as a few videos.

How about cranking out some with Camtasia?

I am sure a lot of people would find it helpful, because to be honest I am finding using this quite confusing.

I have uploaded a massive task list, and am trialing pro to get the subtask functionality a shot, but it is not clear at all how to make use of this productively.

You could even add them as an extra benefit for going Pro so you get paid for them.

But regardless, I do think they are needed.

Can anyone post a camtasia video showing how they are making use of this?

I am sure many others like me would appreciate it :)

Regards,

Stuart
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