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Ummagumma

Score: 1
So, since I've started the original conversation, I had to change from Toodledo to Outlook.com tasks. Informant was not worth $25/year to me, and no other calendar app that could sync with Toodledo matched my needs.

Recently, however, I gave 2Do another try and found out that in that time, they (or he ? it may be a single developer) had added a Calendar view to iPhone app. The view is extremely basic, but that's all I really need in a calendar - to see my meetings and create new ones, nothing fancy.

So, 2Do is it for now. (I do hope he adds some very simple improvements to that calendar window, like making the font size user selectable, and adding a way to launch Apple Calendar from it).


This message was edited Jun 20, 2017.
Ummagumma

Score: 0
I can create a recipe to sync "TO" Toodledo notes (the second "+"), i.e. create a new note, but I don't see the way to sync "FROM" notes (the first "+"). Is it not possible, or am I missing something ?
Ummagumma

Score: 0
I am using MS Outlook.
Ummagumma

Score: 0
I want to still be able to access Toodledo via Outlook, so I set up an Outlook folder with mobile web page address.

For some reason, it keeps asking me to re-login every time I use it. Is this an expected behavior ?
Ummagumma

Posted Jun 19, 2017 in: Removing Pagination on Tasks Beta
Score: 0
Count me in as part of the angry mob, please :) Absolutely don't like the idea, sorry.

This message was edited Jun 19, 2017.
Ummagumma

Score: 0
Does the Toodledo iOS app still need to run to import Reminders, or does it now happen in the background ?
Ummagumma

Score: 0
I've been working with 2Do the entire day and I think their calendar view, while hugely primitive, may be just what I need to get back with Toodledo. I do lose the ability to create tasks from emails with a single click, but I am no longer dependent on Informant while getting the whole power of Toodledo. So possibly a win-win.
Ummagumma

Posted Jun 18, 2017 in: Thanks to Jeff and TD Staff & Good bye
Score: 0
Happy retirement ! We'll miss you.
Ummagumma

Score: 0
Calengoo has been my calendar of choice for long time, but I tend to have sudden startup slowdown issues with it on older devices. (My iPad Mini 2 which I refuse to retire just yet). I would not hold my breath waiting for Dominique to add Toodledo support, he seems pretty busy at the moment developing desktop versions. And the task module of Calengoo, while pretty robust, only has very basic filters. OTOH, Dominique is one of the best developers I've ever had pleasure of communicating with, and I really like Calengoo's design.

PlanBe is extremely fast and with a very well thought through, simple interface, and excellent natural language import. It has however not been updated in years (other than making it work with new iOS), and the only Toodledo special function it supports is Start date and a separate Alarm date. No star, no tags, no context, no location based reminders, no subtasks. Also, their calendar seems to be designed for someone who doesn't work in a corporate environment - there's no way to see meeting status, no way to see the meeting organizer, no way to accept or deny the meeting invitation.

Informant used to be the king, but I refuse to pay $25 a year for what is essentially a poorer designed version of the same program I've already purchased (it's my subjective opinion, but v5 is worse than v4). Also, it's interface tends to get way too busy.

Action Agenda... well I never got past it's interface, I just can't stand it. For a whole number of reasons.

Now, I just realized, while browsing through my (rather large) list of "not on this device" apps that I also own 2Do - I think I actually got it for free when they had a giveaway. I remember it being rather confusing but very promising, and apparently the developer had just added a very basic calendar view. So, this may be the app to investigate - it seems to provide all features of Toodledo + the (tiny and hard to read but better than nothing) calendar.

Still, I think the best Toodledo experience needs to come from Toodledo's own app. 2Do is not cheap and so far it seems rather labor intensive on adding dates. It could **really** benefit from natural language entry support. Also, I can't decide whether to migrate my tasks back to Toodledo (and miss the ability to work with them from Outlook) or just use 2Do with Reminders.

Sorry for the rant, again..


This message was edited Jun 18, 2017.
Ummagumma

Score: 3
Well, here's where I think they are shooting themselves in the foot. Toodledo is providing professional grade task management, but amateur-level accessibility, still largely ignoring the importance of mobile / desktop synergy.

They don't even have to do that much. I went through more than a handful Calendar apps, and most all of them are using iOS Reminders to carry "extra" data (like Start date, or separate Due date and alarm) over to desktop Outlook. That data doesn't show up in Reminders, but it does sync to Outlook tasks. PlanBe, Calengoo, Informant all do it. So it's definitely possible to piggyback on Apple's own sync conduit, instead of developing their own.

And on the mobile, they already have 80% of solution. Anyone seems to be able to write a good calendar app, very few have a good task system in it. Toodledo already has a working task app. All they have to do is to add a single extra view showing day calendar and tasks in the same window. They don't even need to write any calendar dialogs (e.g. adding or editing a meeting), just relegate this to Apple Calendar.

That's how I'd have it: add a Calendar window with today's calendar events at the top, and a saved search or Hotlist at the bottom. User can then set up their saved search to only show the tasks they want on that date. For all other days, show calendar events for that day, and tasks that are due or in progress / overdue on that date. For any calendar specific action (adding or editing a calendar event, or just viewing it's details) invoke Apple's own native Calendar app. It's already there. So no need to write any calendar handling dialogs. Control the display of calendar events in Apple calendar. Basically, just use Apple Calendar for everything and only present events in Toodledo app.

This would be a whole lot more useful to a whole lot more people than Outline / Habit / List / Notes modules. And it would justify at $20 /year subscription for a whole lot more users.
Ummagumma

Score: 2
Posted by Jake:
Thanks for the suggestion. We do not comment on timeframes for implementation, but this is on our to-do list.

Thanks


In other words, a polite "get lost" ;)

You see, I am trying really, really hard to keep using Toodledo, but you guys make it very difficult by pidgeonholing your system into only being suitable for specific use scenarios (web access, no calendar / outlook access, or pay through your nose for finicky, expensive, and not very reliable 3rd party tools).

Anyone who wants to use their tasks in their calendar are basically screwed unless they are willing to pay $25 per year for Informant on top of whatever they pay for Toodledo. There's simply no other workable option.

Anyone who wants to use their tasks in Outlook / Exchange (still the majority of desktop email users) are basically screwed, unless they either purchase gSyncit (it's $9 one time so no big deal, but it is very unreliable and I couldn't even make it properly install on my work laptop no matter what I tried) or other much more expensive and equally unreliable 3rd party Outlook add-ons. I can convert an Outlook email into a tasks with a single click and have it synced to my device. Just not with Toodledo.

So, while you have the best task management tools in the market, it's a lot of hoop jumping to be able to use them effectively.

I don't easily give up subscriptions that I paid for in advance, but I haven't been using Toodledo since January, and I purchased a 2 year Silver subscription in October of last year. It's just too many hoop jumping on the desktop, and I am not paying Informant's $25 /year subscription price for a buggier version of the same app I've already purchased before, so I no longer have a working mobile calendar to use it with either.

I am back to Outlook.com tasks, that sync with Outlook (no 3rd party tools), sync with iOS Reminders (no 3rd party tools) and there's a couple decent iOS calendars that maintain Outlook Start date in Reminders and don't cost an arm and a leg.

I really, really wish I could continue using Toodledo, but you're making it just too hard. Even the best system is not very useful if it can't be incorporated into user's workflow without too much extra work. I think you're losing too many potential paying customers by not providing a complete solution. With all the effort put into Outline module (Workflowy does it better), Notes module (Simplenotes does it better), Lists (Google Sheets does it better), you could have long had an Outlook sync add-in and a simple calendar in your mobile app.These modules would make sense if they were connected and I could create a project outline, export nodes as tasks, attach a list to it, and have it all liked together - but that's not the case.

Sorry for venting my frustration...


This message was edited Jun 17, 2017.
Ummagumma

Score: 1
Well, it's a very clunky and inflexible way to combine tasks and meetings.


The calendar views are static - there's little that one will do with them outside of making changes. The tasks are dynamic - they get re-arranged by date, priority, category etc for better planning. Using iCal to show tasks in calendar doesn't allow for any of this. Besides, if many tasks have overlapping active period (start/due) they really clutter up the day view.

Most iOS calendars that work with Toodledo have major limitations in handling Toodledo's specific data. The only one I know of that supports nearly all of it is Informant, but they just made it a $25/year subscription and goofed up the interface in process. Action Agenda supports many of the options but it has an atrocious interface. PlanBe doesn't support tags or star, only Start Date, and it hadn't been updated with any new features in years.

Lastly, there's 2do. I personally find its interface extremely cluttered and confusing with too many steps to do simple things.

Really, the best app to handle Toodledo tasks is Toodledo's own. I would think that adding basic calendar functionality to Toodledo app should be easier than adding Toodledo task functionality to a calendar app.
Ummagumma

Score: 0
Adding a basic day view of calendar events & hotlist tasks to the mobile app would immediately make Toodledo a significantly more important / useful app.

All I need is a quick overview of what is due on what day, and it means all timed items - whether calendar events or tasks.

Having to deal with 3rd party tools is very frustrating - they are either very expensive, buggy, don't support Toodledo's features, or a combination of that.
Ummagumma

Posted May 29, 2017 in: How to sync to desktop
Score: 0
You can invest in a 3rd party tool like gSyncit, if you make it work (I couldn't) your Toodledo tasks will be in Outlook.

Anything you do on mobile devices will be kept offline if there's no access, then update once you're back on.
Ummagumma

Score: 0
"Yes, the pricing was increased to $19.99 a few months ago to better reflect the value of a Toodledo subscription and to support our future development."

Given that you provide zero way to sync with most commonly used desktop clients, and using Toodledo to it's fullest on the mobile devices requires another expensive subscription to Informant (separating timed events into different programs is not the best approach), this seems like a rather risky move.

Just curious and I understand if you don't answer this question, but do you feel that you were getting enough new paying users as it is, even before the subscription price increase ?
Ummagumma

Posted May 09, 2017 in: How to sync to desktop
Score: 0
Posted by dethornton:
I don't understand. When I go to "Tasks" as you've suggested, I'm looking at my tasks on the Internet. I still don't have a copy on my computer that I can access when I don't have access to the internet. To "sync" means that I have a copy on my local computer that synchronizes with a separate copy on the internet. Does Toodledo do this??


Not without a fairly expensive and finicky 3rd party tool.

https://www.toodledo.com/tools/directory.php
Ummagumma

Posted May 08, 2017 in: Charge for syncing!
Score: 0
"To your point about addressing the Outlook users: 10 years ago, I was "all in" with Outlook and Exchange—professionally and personally. In addition to my work Exchange, I subscribed to my own personal hosted exchange. With WinMo 6 died, I migrated to Google Apps. I have always wanted to go back to Outlook/Exchange. The single biggest reason I have never been able to is a good solution for accessing exchange tasks on mobile."

If it's a personal account, just sign up for an Outlook.com address, it's now a proper Exchange and can be synced both to the Outlook on the desktop, and iOS reminders, without using any 3rd party tools. Or if you're dead set against Outlook.com for some reason, the iCloud client for Windows syncs with Outlook pretty well too.

If you're set on using Toodledo, and still want to use Outlook, then look at gSyncit. I can't use it because it doesn't work with proxy firewall at our work (even though most other services do).

Overall, in my experience, Exchange + iOS devices is far easier to set up for a decent task and calendar workflow than Exchange + Android. More choices and fewer hurdles.


This message was edited May 08, 2017.
Ummagumma

Posted May 05, 2017 in: A-la Carte Pricing Model ?
Score: 1
Depending on what features you use, there are other calendar programs that support TD. I think I've tried them all.

PlanBe - supports start / end dates and separate alarms, has a very simple and logical interface, and is inexpensive. But no "Today" feature. I guess I could use Start date as "Today" feature (i.e. set it to today for the tasks that I want to work on) but that's a bit too much work.

ActionAgenda - it supports most of Toodledo features - or so I think - but I hated the interface and could never get over it. Mainly, the font was too small, there was too little visual difference between tasks and meetings, and overall the interface felt confusing. But it's a very subjective opinion. Try their Lite version, see if you like it.

For me, trading PI+TD for Calengoo+Outlook.com+Outlook worked out the best.

Also, I am worried that PI is not there to stay. If you read through their new owner's blog posts and disregard all the fluff and niceties, he's basically saying they have far too much overhead and can't continue developing PI in the long run without a major price increase. The problem is, most of their competitors don't have that kind of overhead - they are either being developed in countries with cheaper cost of living, or by a single developer, or both. Over the years Alex had built PI into a small business, unfortunately there's no market expansion to sustain even a small dedicated team anymore. Calengoo, for example, is being maintained by a single developer with a day job.

I would hate to build all of my workflow around a specific program with a unique set of features, pay for a few years of expensive service, then see it going belly up. Things like Starred tasks or custom task filters and custom views can't be easily replicated in another app.

Instead, I changed my workflow to a different model, where I can basically take all of my tasks into a different calendar program with very little adjustment to how I do things, and more importantly none of the task properties that I use would be lost if I stopped using Calengoo. There's no things like Stars or custom tags that are specific to just that program and will get lost if using a different one. All of the task properties get synced to Outlook in one way or another, and can be reused.


This message was edited May 05, 2017.
Ummagumma

Posted May 05, 2017 in: Charge for syncing!
Score: 0
"Are you saying: “Since Toodledo is small in the market place and does not provide ‘xyz’ features, people should not expect to pay for Toodledo?”

No, that's not what I am saying.

My reply was to OP who suggested that Toodledo should start charging for sync.

Sync is the basic feature that everyone needs. Toodledo not being well known or widely adapted, they can't afford to charge for sync because it will turn potential users away from the beginning. Why would I even consider trying a less-known service if I have to pay to get my tasks synced to my phone (even with a trial period) when every other service provides free sync ?

I believe to make money they need to support Exchange sync as a paid feature, instead of relying on the iffy and pricey 3rd party tools.

Any.do, Todoist etc. have a very different approach - they provide a very basic set of task features in a snazzy, simple, fast and easy to use mobile interface. So they are targeting mobile users, and seem to be fairly successful.

Toodledo's niche is the people who need more advanced task management features, and are willing to live with a bit more confusing / dated interface. I bet that the majority of them are using Toodledo for work related tasks, and are using Outlook at work (Outlook still holds about 70% of corporate email marketshare). Outlook has a very advanced task management, and if Toodledo could sync to it via Exchange, it would be a match made in heaven. This would be a good feature to charge for.

As it stands now, I think Toodledo provides too much for free, and too little for a paid Silver tier.
Ummagumma

Posted May 03, 2017 in: Charge for syncing!
Score: 0
GTD is a method, not a religion. And it was set up before the advances in electronic tools / smartphones. It's very complicated in order to make sure tasks don't get lost / forgotten - using the low-tech approach like the marked up file folders. In my personal experience, faithfully following GTD results in way too much time spent on maintaining the task list, instead of having more time to actually work on these pesky tasks ;).

If your day starts early in the morning and lasts until evening and is full of meetings, calls, deadlines, sudden delegated issues and "oh shlts" that need to be taken care of, the last thing you want is to separate your calendar from your daily tasks. These are all timed items that fill your day, and they belong in the same view.

I want to see, as minimum, my meetings for the day, the tasks I handpicked to work on today, the tasks that are due today, and overdue tasks. In a single view that I can glance at on the fly.

I don't buy into the "importance vs urgency" quadrangle, either. All that matters is the need, and the deadline. If it must be done, and has a deadline, then it must be done before the deadline. If you can move the deadline or not do the task altogether, then it's neither important nor urgent. Doesn't matter if we're talking paying the water bill or making a presentation for a room full of executives.

I generate my tasks in various applications - email, Onenote, sometimes a mind mapper . Most of the "high level" tasks never leave the app; only the directly actionable, concrete tasks go into Outlook, arranged by project lists. I also have a Master task view set up for tracking / planning these tasks.

I break my master task list into three groups. The tasks that I will work on today (no more than 4-6), the tasks I will work on next (also no more than 4-6), and all the rest, sorted by the due date. Since the majority of calendar apps don't support Star, I use priorities for this (which also works well with desktop Outlook). High priority for "Today", medium for "Next", low priority for the rest of tasks, no priority means the task has not yet been "processed" so it also works as Inbox. Any task that has a deadline and takes more than an hour or two to complete gets a start date, so that it doesn't sneak up on me. I try to review my task list every evening, but certainly no less than 3-4 times a week.

So, with that approach, I don't really *need* Toodledo. I *liked* using it, because planning and organizing my tasks in it was easy. OTOH, having to manually enter them, or forward as emails, was a PITA. However, at the end of the day, I don't like Toodledo enough to start paying the high subscription price for the buggy Informant with an ugly new interface and an uncertain future, or going with separate calendar and task apps.


This message was edited May 03, 2017.
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