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KeithStone |
Posted Jun 03, 2009 in: Why Contexts Don't Work (and what will!)
Score: 0
This is a very interesting idea. I probably do something like this subconsciously as I scan my task lists. "Item 1 requires internet access, and my service is down, so skip to item 2.". It makes sense to me logically. But tactically, it sounds like it could get complicated to maintain it in a tool. It would be tempting to get overspecific. "Hmm. Practice guitar. For that, I need a guitar and a metronome."
I think I'd rather just narrow my list with simple contexts, and let my brain do the subtle needs-based filtering from there. But if it was available, I'd definitely think through whether I could use it without going overboard. |
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KeithStone |
Posted Jun 03, 2009 in: Handling over 150 Projects
Score: 0
I do use folders for projects. But when I say that, maybe I mean something different than others. I use folders to contain all the Next Actions for my projects, but not all my project plans. I plan the simple projects in TD--which means most of my projects. But for the more complex projects, I still use listpro, and just copy my next actions over to the TD project folder during my weekly review. I'm looking for another list/outliner tool that can make use of the TD email import, and which can work on my iPod Touch. But I haven't found it yet. Any ideas?
I have a pro account, but I don't use subtasks right now because my main interface to TD is through Pocket Informant on my iPod Touch, which doesn't handle subtsasks yet. Once I have subtasks, I can probably handle 95% of my project planning in TD. I'll still need to do the rest with another tool like I do now. The inability to create Folders on the fly has only been a minor nuisance to me. I do most of my work in PI, where I can create them on the fly. I have no trouble looking at large numbers of projects, personally. The tabbed view in TD isn't very useful with that many tabs. I just stay in the main view, and sort by folder or context. I'm not troubled by the inability to put priorities or due dates on my projects (as opposed to my tasks). I wouldn't bother even if I could. This message was edited Jun 03, 2009. |
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KeithStone |
Posted by thpope:
Can you feel that excitement from Anders? LOL. Yes, and I feel the same way! |
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KeithStone |
Posted by lite1:
Anders and Big KC thax for sharing/responding but perhaps you can elaborate or get more concrete as I am still missing the power of EN. I do not use TD in a mobile arena; I do have a Blackberry but rarely use it to take photos. I do a great deal of research online, primarily text oriented stuff, although a diagram or photo/graphic/image might also be part of it. Typically I have two web browser windows open (one for work related things for when a customer might call on the phone; the other for my web research) both with several tabs open with TD in one of those tabs. I do most of my online work using my mobile tools...mostly my iPod Touch, with my WM phone as a backup. Even when I'm home, I don't use my desktop too much. The kids are always on it. That might be the critical difference.My approach might be: 1) Article I wish to read later - type N to create a task Read ... cut/paste the url into note with some sense of why I think the article/info might be of value and to what. Done, onto next thing. 2) Read reviews to make a decision about purchase of new equipment: Depending on the importance and monetary expense I'd typically have a word doc open into which I'd cut and paste web items including screen captures. Read things in word doc so that I can both use highlighter and make my own annotations. Create task in TD to read/complete analysis and write report with recommendation to boss. 3) If my web based research is more extensive/elaborate and depending on its purpose and audience, my initial word doc might then become a PDF that I can work with in Acrobat Pro. WIth it not only can I highlight in different colors, but I can place collapsible notes as kind of a layer so that I can meta-comment on some aspect of the content. I haven't played much with EN, but not sure I could really do those things. 4) In learning TD, I cut/paste into word doc entire forum threads or portions thereof that I find to be useful tips of how people are using things. Again I don't see where EN would be an advantage. Evernote might not create any advantage over your current process if you do most of your work in the same place. I've never used Acrobat Pro. Sounds like it does have more advanced annotating features. Evernote will allow you to change font colors for highlighting, but not collapsible annotations. The main advantage to me is that it's in the cloud, so I can access it from many places. The secondary advantage is its great capturing and recognition/searching features relative to other cloud-based options. (Have you ever tried to copy and paste on an iPhone or iPod Touch? LOL) Big KC writes about capturing audio notes, and I guess this might be useful to me when I am driving. When driving, or even when walking through the grocery store with my two-year-old tagging along. This is my least favorite capture technique, though, because Evernote can't transcribe the audio notes. I've been thinking of using dial2do or Jott or something so I can get the audio with a transcription into my evernote inbox. Haven't tried it yet, though. But bottom line is that either I am missing the power of EN, OR perhaps since I am not wanting/needing to be productive in a mobile situation that EN is not necessarily a tool of value for me. I always have 3 x 5 cards with me (been carrying them for a couple of decades - not the same ones) and still find that writing something rather than typing because of the different kinesthetic input triggers different parts of my thinking. [shudder] Did I mention I hate working with paper notes? Actually, I admire people who have that skill. I've read of people implementing GTD successfully with nothing but a stack of notecards and some paper clips to group them by context, etc. I've spent countless hours learning high-tech methods for doing what others do perfectly well with paper and pen. And the technology changes every couple of years, so I have to learn all over again. (Evernote and TD are both very new for me). I honestly see my dependence on high-tech as a character flaw. But a relatively minor one in the grand scheme of things. The developer of EN refers to it as "your external brain" or something like that. My judgment, by it seems that some of the video clips on EN of people using it to remind them of where they parked seem slightly absurd to me - seems like using the memory that one has built in as a human OR some low tech solution like jotting it on a parking slip or 3x5 might work as well. I thought so too, until I started using EN for other stuff and got in the habit of using it. Now I often find myself without paper and pen, so I end up using EN for some quite mundane things. Just last week I used it to write down my hotel room number. Turns out I didn't need it. I almost always remember my room number. But if I don't write it down I worry that I'll forget it. Evernote is overkill for that. I don't need my room number synced to the cloud...I could've just used my iPod notepad, which is just a digital 3x5 card. But I'm in the habit of going into EN now.
This message was edited Jun 03, 2009. |
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KeithStone |
Posted by TheGriff:
Big KC...I'm surprised you aren't using the Toodledo Firefox extension to get things into Toodledo. I use it all the time to capture web pages I want to check in on later. I do use the FF extension at times, if a web site gives me an idea for a specific action other than "Read this". If it's just an item to read it goes into my "Reading Pile" folder in Evernote, where I can easily read it, annotate it, and then file it to my general reference folders if I like it. I used to create Next Actions for items I want to read. But I re-read GTD earlier this year and saw that David Allen suggests just having a read/review stack, and using the items in the stack as the reminder. I tried it out using Evernote as my (digital) reading pile, and liked it. That's when I really started webclipping stuff to Evernote. I find it helpful to create my project support folders in Evernote, too. If I'm making a big purchase, for example, I can clip reviews, photos, etc into the folder, add my own thoughts, and email the notes to my wife and mother-in-law for their opinions. (OK, I haven't done that yet...but I plan to. They always have sensible advice). I can even scan hardcopy stuff into Evernote quite easily, and it becomes searchable. I'm really bad at managing paper notes and hardcopy files. Now that I've started using Evernote for my reading pile, general reference, and project folders, I find myself in there all the time. I've started using it to capture random thoughts as they come up. That's where all the different capturing techniques have really come in handy. In a recent article, David Allen wrote One of the most valuable lessons I've learned in my quasi-scientific approach to sustained laziness is the value of storing thoughts in appropriate places, as soon as I have them. That means parking them where I will later evaluate their merit (or lack thereof) and dispose of them accordingly. Having a thought once is what the mind is for; having the same thought twice, in the same way, for the same reason, is a waste of time and energy. I also found out that having a place for good ideas produced more of them, and more often. I've always felt the same way; but never implemented it consistently. Personally, I find myself capturing those thoughts much more often since I've had evernote. I'm really bad at managing paper notes.http://www.wired.co.uk/wired-magazine/archive/2009/05/how-to/be-creative-amid-chaos.aspx# As an aside, I just recently started using Evernote to catalog my favorite quotes--something I've always wanted to do. The first quote I saved was DA's description of GTD as his "quasi-scientific approach to sustained laziness". I love it. I know all of this can be done using paper, etc. But did I mention that I'm bad at managing paper? Always have been. It's some sort of mental roadblock I have. I hate flipping through folders, sorting through handwritten notes, often recopying them, etc. That's probably an issue I need to work on. But in the meantime, Evernote helps me to function much better. :-) Posted by TheGriff: I'm confused about the problems you have finding EN URLs. If you click on the note to open it you should be able to copy the link from the address bar. In fact I just tested the Firefox extension's ability to "Toodledo This Page" within an EN note and it worked flawlessly. I had to type in the "task" name but it filled in the EN url in the note field perfectly. I had tried copying the URL before, and it didn't work. Must've been user error, because it works now. Never thought of using the TD FF extension from within Evernote. Great idea! That solves my problem when I'm at my desktop, at least. (It still doesn't solve it from my mobile apps though. Evernote mobile apps allow you to email a note; but not a link to a note. Emailing the note to my TD email never works right. Anyone have any tips for this? I have all my best ideas when I'm out and about.) I second your request for the mods to move the Evernote discussion to a new string. This message was edited Jun 03, 2009. |
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KeithStone |
Posted by Anders:
I use Evernote a lot myself. I basically got started with it because I need to gather a lot of information online. I do a lot of online research, and get a lot of ideas for things I want to do. The webclipper makes that very easy to do, and then organize them all in one place. Now I use Evernote for all kinds of things. I have it on my WM phone, and can take pictures with Evernote, and make text notes. I use the iPhone app, and another one called Paint for Evernote for quickly scribbling notes. That's how I use it, too. To capture thoughts on the fly. There are so many ways to capture thoughts...photographs (which become searchable if they have words in them that evernote can recognize), text notes, audio notes, scribbles, clips from web pages. I also have it on my iPod touch and my WM phone, like Anders. If I have a thought, I capture it in Evernote to process later. If I see a web page I want to read, but don't have the time, I clip it right to my "read/review" folder in Evernote for later. I also use it as a normal notebook to organize reference info for my projects. But that's the boring part. As for using it in a TD context, since I'm capturing so many thoughts in Evernote, I then need to process those thoughts and convert them to projects and tasks. Right now, it means manually typing the task in Toodledo. It's not hard, really. In fact, it's quite easy. But it's not slick, you know? Also, it would be great if my TD tasks and projects could refer back to the source notes in Evernote. That could be as simple as placing a URL into the notes field of the task. But I have trouble finding the URLs in Evernote. Anders, does the Paint for Evernote create an ink note that Evernote can recognize, like in the Evernote app on WM? I thought of buying it; but couldn't tell if it works that way. |
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KeithStone |
As an aside...I think the integration sticking point would be Evernote. I looked through their export options the other night and there really aren't any. I'm sure the TD devs would be happy to add the import but I think Evernote is interested in keeping your information to themselves. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that's not true. In a podcast, they talk about how they recently discovered that GTD fans love Evernote. They say they've attended GTD conferences and plan to make it even more GTD friendly. They see it as a complement to other GTD tools, which is also how I see it. http://blog.evernote.com/2009/04/02/evernote-podcast-2/ In another podcast, they hinted that there may be an integration with Remember the Milk in the very near future (I hope it's not an exclusive arrangement). They seem to have opened up their API, so I'm sure a clever developer at TD could figure out something! http://blog.evernote.com/2009/05/19/evernote-podcast-4/ But maybe you're right. The integration that interests me is the ability to create tasks in TD from Evernote, with links back to Evernote notes or folders. I think Evernote would have to do something from their end to make that happen. I think it's frustrating that they make it so hard to even get a URL that links back to the note. I know the URL exists, because Tarpipe has access to it. But I haven't been able to find it for my notes. Still, my hopes are high after hearing the podcasts. This message was edited Jun 02, 2009. |
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KeithStone |
Posted by Claudio:
Posted by TheGriff: What's relevant is: Can Toodledo handle the projects that I need to complete? If not, then should I use another tool, or should I recommend additional functions for Toodledo. If I need another tool, is there a way that I can integrate that tool with Toodledo, since I use Toodledo for my other "more basic" projects and it would be nice if I could have an overview of all of my projets in one place, and it would even nicer if I didn't have to duplicate a lot of information to do so. If Toodledo can handle the projects, could it do it more efficiently and more elegantly if it had additional functionality? And, if yes, then what additional functionality does it need? I think you got to the gist of it. GTD has several components. There are the task lists (including Next Actions by context, Waiting, Someday/Maybe, and appointments). Toodledo handles those fine. Then there are the project plans, which generate many of the tasks. In my experience, Toodledo can handle the majority of projects (probably 80%). But it can't handle the more complex projects, which are fewer in number but may drive a significant number of tasks. Then there are the GTD processes like collecting data (which I do in Evernote), organizing reference materials (which Toodledo supports somewhat in the Notebook, but it's weak--I use Evernote for that too), processing data into next actions (which Toodledo handles fine, once you get the data in there),etc. It's perfectly valid to discuss what other elements of GTD could be covered within Toodledo; or, how can we can better link other GTD tools (like Evernote or project planning apps) into Toodledo (since they are clearly a source of tasks on the task list). Personally, I don't mind managing my complex projects outside of TD; but I'd love a way to move the tasks into TD more efficiently. I'm trying to find an outliner tool that allows you to email individual elements, so that I can send my next actions into TD more efficiently. But I haven't found one yet. I'm also looking for a good way to cross reference between TD and Evernote. That would make for a pretty slick GTD setup. In other words, I have no problem at all with what you've said, Claudio. I just take issue with the claims in this string that "TD is not for GTD". It just confuses the real issue. A much more helpful discussion would be: what characteristics would that intermediate project planning tool have? To me, it would be fairly simple outlining capability, seperate from the task lists, but with a simple way to move any item from the outline to the task list. Another helpful discussion would be what to do in the meantime, since TD doesn't have that capability right now. Is there an online outlining tool or other project planning tool that can be integrated with TD using the email task creation (for example)? This message was edited Jun 02, 2009. |
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KeithStone |
I have to admit to some confusion here. I've been using GTD for years. I read Getting Things Done several times; and I've read "Ready for Anything" as well. I find Toodledo project handling (using folders for projects) perfectly in line with what David Allen writes.
I understand if people want to see added project planning capabilities (eg. more hierarchy or the ability to set dependencies, etc). But I don't think it's true to say that it's necessary for "GTD the way David Allen sees it". When he wrote GTD, he managed his project plans using outlines in Microsoft Word, then (presumably manually) copying tasks to his next action lists during his weekly reviews. (re: project outlines, he wrote: "It doesn't really matter where you put this kind of thinking, so long as it's easily accessible so you can input and review as needed." GTD p.220) It would be great if you could do this kind of outlining in TD, and then easily move items from the outline to the active to-do list as necessary. Subtasks enable this in a very limited way. Simple outlining capability would be much better, and would allow me to plan 95% of my projects right in TD. I hope Toodledo gets there some day (just like I hope it integrates with something like Evernote for better implementation of the "collection" phase of GTD). But in the meantime, the fact that I have to manage my more complex project outlines outside of Toodledo does not make it inconsistent with GTD. It just means it doesn't cover the full scope of GTD. Maybe the issue is that many people are moving to Toodledo from other apps that go farther towards integrating the different parts? I've never really had that luxury, so maybe that's why I'm confused. |
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KeithStone |
Posted Jun 01, 2009 in: When do you define "next action #2"?
Score: 1
By the way, in my opinion this is the most important thing David Allen has said about project planning:
"Countless questions have been e-mailed to me asking for the best ways and tools to organize project thinking. People want to know how to relate project pieces to each other and to all the other projects and their pieces. Ninety-nine percent of the time, my answer is the same: 'Once a week, do a thorough review of all your projects in as much detail as you need to. If you do, your systems will work. If you don't, no system will work." This kind of weekly conscious overviewing of projects and their associated actions keeps you organized with incredible effectiveness, because it's really about capturing, catalyzing, and executing creative thinking, not about 'getting organized'." His point, I believe, is that if you have done a thorough review each week, you will have enough awareness of your commitments to trust your gut instincts for the day-to-day operational details. That's why he doesn't get into the kind of tactical detail you're asking about. You don't need to micromanage at the tactical level if you trust your gut. And you will trust your gut if you have done the thorough weekly review. (Personally, I think the daily project scan, even if only 5 minutes, helps me trust my gut 100% better.) That quote is from an article on "'organizing groupies'--people who dedicate an inordinate amount of time and energy to experimenting with organizing details that don't seem to me nearly worth the effort." Those of us who hang out on time management forums are probably in constant danger of crossing that line. So take what I say with a grain of salt. :-) |
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KeithStone |
Posted Jun 01, 2009 in: When do you define "next action #2"?
Score: 0
I agree with TheGriff. David Allen would tell you to do enough planning up front to get the project off your mind. That includes brainstorming the tasks for the project, and organizing them (when necessary) into subprojects, sequences & priorities. Check out his writings on the "Natural Planning Model".
Most projects are small, and don't need much "organizing". But some of them need quite a bit. "If the project is off your mind, your planning is sufficient. If it's still on your mind, keep applying the model until it's clear." Similar to theGriff, I generally make my first action "Plan for project x", unless it's a simple project that I can plan out in 2 minutes or less. (Luckily, most projects are that simple). In Toodledo, when I brainstorm the project steps, I enter them as tasks immediately. I place them in the project folder. But I don't assign them to a context until I am ready to do them (I use contexts to identify next actions). When I complete an action for a project, I can go to the project folder and quickly pick which tasks come next. Then I either do the task, or assign it to a context so it becomes a next action. Also, Like TheGriff, I do a brief project sweep at the end of each day. When I scan the list, I know right away if I've worked on a project, and I quickly go in and pick the next action if I haven't already done so. It doesn't take more than a few minutes. During my weekly review, I look at the projects more closely to see if the project plan still makes sense, or if it needs revision. If it needs revision, I will create a next action called "Re-plan project x". Hope this helps. -Big KC |
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KeithStone |
Here's my setup:
1.Inbox = a task with no context and a start date of today or earlier (or no start date at all). 2.Tickler file = A task with no context, and a future start date. 3.Calendar = Google Calendar 4.Projects = Folders 5.Someday/Maybe = "Someday/Maybe" context. 6.Waiting = "Waiting" context. 7.Next Actions = all the other contexts I've defined. I assign every task to a context. Technically, the "waiting" and "someday" contexts aren't really contexts in GTD. I originally used the waiting and someday status settings, as Anders suggests. It worked ok in Toodledo; but I sync with Pocket Informant on the iPhone, which was purposely overriding the status at times. I switched to my current setup as a workaround in PI, but now I like it better. I get the same result as before, with one less field (ie less data entry). I haven't bothered with a read/review list in Toodledo. I think the physical item itself is the best reminder for that category. I have a read/review folder in my email system, another in Evernote for web clippings, and a physical read/review stack for hardcopy. As for the "perfect" system, everyone's a bit different. I think assigning a task to multiple projects is overcomplicated. Multiple contexts might be nice; but not necessary for me. Areas of focus are not something I track. I have a list of areas of focus that I scan through to make sure I've identified all my projects. But I would never assign my tasks to an area of focus in my system. It's too much maintenance. And anyway, when I look at a task it's apparent what area of focus it's in. To me, Toodledo has everthing I need as a GTD task system. Two things could bring it much closer to perfection: better capture tools (e.g. integration with Evernote) to make it easier to get items into the system to begin with; and better non-task list management for things like shopping lists, etc. |
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KeithStone |
Posted May 31, 2009 in: Evernote Integration using Tarpipe.com
Score: 1
I've been playing around with it a bit more. Image files are the only attachments you can upload to Evernote this way for now, which limits the usefulness. If tarpipe supports other attachment types in the future, this could be really powerful. I've requested it on their user forum.
For the record, it would also help if Toodledo allowed the creation of Notebook entries via email. :-) |
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KeithStone |
Posted May 31, 2009 in: Evernote Integration using Tarpipe.com
Score: 0
FYI...the blocked out text in the workflow diagram is just my Toodledo secret email address.
I actually created this evernote using the Tarpipe workflow. I got the direct link to the note from the resulting Toodledo task. I don't know if it will work for everyone, but it works for me. -Big KC This message was edited May 31, 2009. |
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KeithStone |
Posted May 31, 2009 in: Evernote Integration using Tarpipe.com
Score: 2
Well, in a small way.
I found a service called "Tarpipe" that allows you to create workflows to publish content to multiple websites at once. You can kick off the workflow using a secret email address, similar to how you add tasks by email in Toodledo. I just created a workflow that does the following: 1. I send an email to the secret email address assigned to the workflow by Tarpipe. 2. Tarpipe creates a note in my default Evernote folder. The subject of my email becomes the Title of the note. The body of the email becomes the body of the note. Any attached image files get attached to the note, and become searchable due to Evernote image recognition. 3. Tarpipe sends an email to my Toodledo secret email address creating a task. The subject of the email is the same as my original email. The body of the email is a hyperlink to the Evernote note. 4. Toodledo receives the email and converts it to a task. The notes field for the task has a link to the note in Evernote. All I have to do is kick off the workflow with an eMail, and the rest is automated. Not exactly a deep integration; but it's a start. Tarpipe is in beta, and still has a long way to go. But it looks like it could become really powerful. Here's an image of my Tarpipe workflow: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s9/note/08046f86-50bd-41ff-81d6-3d8657038b4d If that direct link doesn't work, you can find it in my public notebook on evernote: http://www.evernote.com/pub/kcumpston/Public/ -Big KC This message was edited May 31, 2009. |
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KeithStone |
A bookmarklet would be great, since it would work from any browser. I'm thinking Safari on the iPhone.
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