ForumsQuestionsNew subscription prices - what do you think?


New subscription prices - what do you think?
Author Message
Ummagumma

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 2 Reference
Posted by SyneRyder:
Personally, I'm less concerned about the pricing (though that 3x hike is much more than I expected) and more about how long Toodledo is staying around. If the price increase really does help Toodledo stay around forever, great! But I'm worried the inevitable customer attrition may just speed up its demise. I didn't realize the competition has some rather well documented developer APIs for third-party apps too.

For me, the main pricing irritation is that the Individual plan has only 1 year of task history. If it had unlimited task history, I could downgrade from Gold to Individual, and then it would only be a 2x price hike for me. I don't use Toodledo as a business & don't need the collaboration features or file uploads, but I do like the peace of mind of unlimited history (and being able to do statistics on that task history).



When I read the line about “aligning prices with plans” I knew it was the time to start looking around.

You don’t align prices with plans. You align prices with what you have to offer *now*. Because that’s what your potential customers are making their decision based on. The new TD guys are essentially treating this as a kickstarter project, and it’s not.


This message was edited Oct 17, 2018.
noel_public

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 4 Reference
Another long time paying user since 2010. Toodledo just isn't a good value at 3x the price. I'll drop Toodledo once my subscription runs out.

Sad.
J.O.D.

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 1 Reference
All right, so I got my e-mail and I am actually more or less O.K. with the plans and the price is steep, but still I am more pro-Toodledo than con. However, if there is no monthly subscription for Individual plan, that would be dealbreaker for me. Of course I expect some users to leave Toodledo, as this is still a massive price increase (Individual plan is twice the Gold plan).
AA

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 2 Reference
I'm so disgusted. What a horrible, horrible price hike. This is what you get for years of customer loyalty – they TRIPLE the price on you! Or is it QUADRUPLE? It looks like the so-called Business plan might be the only one that's usable for a current Gold subscriber like myself. I knew when Jake sold Toodledo we were in deep trouble. But this has surpassed my worst fears.
Purveyor

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 4 Reference
Posted by user50:
The lack of updates, the poor iOS apps and the empty promises in these forums were bad enough but the dramatic price increase is the final nail.
Along with the almost complete lack of support in the forums.
The classy thing to do would be to release the "great new features" and then talk about price increases but the new owners might have become impatient and started grabbing before giving.
I agree.

Sam, the owner who said “I'll be super active in this forum, answering as many questions as possible” has disappeared. This is what he said when he announced the proposed changes to pricing:
Posted by Sam
More likely than not, this won’t be so much of a pricing change, but combining the Gold and Platinum package.
Please note that there is no plan to increase the price of current paying users.
https://www.toodledo.com/forums/1/25975/0/toodledo-update-1.html


This message was edited Oct 17, 2018.
aleding

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 3 Reference
I think it shows incredibly bad business sense to send out increased pricing in advance of any added features. Couple this with the decreased value many will experience due to either less features for a given cost point or static features at a higher cost point - it all equals poor decision making.

As to what I personally will do, already been checking out alternatives and based on what the new team offers us in terms of value, I may switch.

That said, it does leave an overall bad taste in one's mouth as we subscribers are not a VC nor investors but having the new team present the higher costs as required to fund new features makes it seem like we are.

And yeah, I know - some of us are "grandfathered"...but actually, we're not. The new folks are simply honoring the existing contracts already in place and which pricing expires at the end of the existing term. That's not grandfathering - as I said that's called honoring a contract. To not do so would be a breach and possibly lead to litigation.

Fingers crossed that I'm wrong on the overall perception here but I haven't seen much from the new folks except for a new front page (why - nowhere near a priority) and a new pricing announcement...No new value there at all...

I know Jake has said a few times post-sale that he trusts the new team...for me the jury is still out...


This message was edited Oct 17, 2018.
MM1772

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 1 Reference
I haven't received the new pricing email yet (yes, I looked in the spam folder), so I went to the public-facing Toodledo website (https://www.toodledo.com/subscribe/index.php) and saw the price changes. [UPDATE: The message just appeared in my email. Will read it now.]

I'm a Gold member and my cost will go from $29.99/year to $89.88/year.

I compared the different levels and the only thing I really need on the Gold plan is the Full history.

Speaking of history, according to my email folder for Toodledo, I joined as a free member in 1999. I upgraded to Gold in 2010. That's a lost of history, but I don't necessarily save all my completed tasks. For example, I have to take recycling to the recycling area. Instead of just marking it as complete, I either reschedule it for next time, or change the date to No Date. Since I don't use the Goals feature, it doesn't really affect anything if I do it this way.

Two years ago I would have said, "I need Toodledo and I don't have the time to learn another app." But things have changed. I now have more time than money because I had to retire, so I have to evaluate my choice differently.

Someone suggested letting current subscribers renew at the old rate. I don't see how Toodledo could do that indefinitely, but maybe they could give tiered discounts for existing customers. For example, if you've been a customer for 1-5 years, you get x% discount, 6-10 years, a higher discount, 10+ a higher discount. Or instead of increasing the amount of discount, they could increase the number of years you'd get a set discount.

In the meantime, I will, unfortunately be investigating other apps just so I can make an informed decision.


This message was edited Oct 17, 2018.
aleding

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 0 Reference
Posted by MM1772:

Someone suggested letting current subscribers renew at the old rate. I don't see how Toodledo could do that indefinitely, but maybe they could give tiered discounts for existing customers. For example, if you've been a customer for 1-5 years, you get x% discount, 6-10 years, a higher discount, 10+ a higher discount. Or instead of increasing the amount of discount, they could increase the number of years you'd get a set discount.


Totally agree re: some of the discount ideas you mention for existing subs but given what I've seen from the new team thus far coupled with how this was done, I don't see any such treatment of existing subs on our horizon.

The new team seems primarily concerned with getting $$$ - not building on an already awesome albeit neglected platform...

Again, I hope my perception is wrong...time will tell...


This message was edited Oct 17, 2018.
pawelkaleta

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 0 Reference
For those who still wait for the email - details of the new plan.

Note that in another thread there is a discussion related to Task notes and it looks like they changed the plan a bit after I had received my mail and now they included Task notes in the Free plan. Could someone else confirm?

Posted by pawelkaleta:


Edit:

Yes, they have changed it in the meantime and included Task notes to Free plan - you can compare both versions.
So some users had received their e-mails with a different version of the plan. C'mon new owners, how much time did you spend on designing that new plan if you change it on the fly, 5 minutes??

Shared by J.O.D.:


This message was edited Oct 17, 2018.
aleding

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 1 Reference
Or the lazy version...

The new cost is a > 200% increase (i.e. 3x) for the same existing feature set and quantity\storage allotments...


This message was edited Oct 17, 2018.
jzamoras

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 1 Reference
I renewed silver 2 years ahead about 1 month ago so I'm ok for now, but at this price point there are better alternatives.
mwb20x

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 2 Reference
My subscription runs out in 18 months. So there is still lots of time to see if there are going to be big improvements. However, right now I have a Gold subscription and there is no way I am ever going to pay $90 for it. That's a ridiculous price for Toodledo as it is right now. There would have to be a substantial improvement beyond just being a task manager. I'd never pay $90 a year for a task manager. And by the way I wouldn't pay $60 either.
aleding

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 2 Reference
Posted by pawelkaleta:

...it looks like they changed the plan a bit after I had received my mail and now they included Task notes in the Free plan. Could someone else confirm?


I can confirm that "Task Notes" is included in the free option in the the email I received...


This message was edited Oct 17, 2018.
aaron.c.salls

Toodledo Admin
Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: -4 Reference
Thanks for the feedback, and I appreciate folks keeping this constructive.

You all raise some great points. Indeed, this was not an easy decision to make. We believe this is a necessary step in positioning Toodledo in the market and sustaining the business.

We decided to share this because historically, it was focused investment in Tasks that made Toodledo valuable to you, and that investment had waned over time. No more. We are getting back to the core of what makes Toodledo great and refocusing our efforts around task management. We believe there’s plenty we can do to improve the ease-of-use, much smart multi-select and batch editing, more search parameters, and bringing our mobile app development in-house to ensure a much more consistent experience across platforms. There are product design problems we can solve, and looking through forums shows plenty of feedback and bug reports that we want to be more responsive to.

Some folks have already made up their minds, but the reason we shared this now is because it provides transparency and holds us accountable. You'll have a chance to see for yourself over the coming weeks if our momentum earns your support going into 2019.
jzamoras

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 0 Reference
Posted by aaron.c.salls:
Thanks for the feedback, and I appreciate folks keeping this constructive.

You all raise some great points. Indeed, this was not an easy decision to make. We believe this is a necessary step in positioning Toodledo in the market and sustaining the business.

We decided to share this because historically, it was focused investment in Tasks that made Toodledo valuable to you, and that investment had waned over time. No more. We are getting back to the core of what makes Toodledo great and refocusing our efforts around task management. We believe there’s plenty we can do to improve the ease-of-use, much smart multi-select and batch editing, more search parameters, and bringing our mobile app development in-house to ensure a much more consistent experience across platforms. There are product design problems we can solve, and looking through forums shows plenty of feedback and bug reports that we want to be more responsive to.

Some folks have already made up their minds, but the reason we shared this now is because it provides transparency and holds us accountable. You'll have a chance to see for yourself over the coming weeks if our momentum earns your support going into 2019.


I barely use habits, lists and outlines, so I'm fine with that. But you will need to be WAY better than more sucessful tasks managers to justify this price increase, and the competition will smell the "blood" i.e. offer toodledo import for easy migration.
Ummagumma

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 3 Reference
Posted by J.O.D.:
All right, so I got my e-mail and I am actually more or less O.K. with the plans and the price is steep, but still I am more pro-Toodledo than con. However, if there is no monthly subscription for Individual plan, that would be dealbreaker for me. Of course I expect some users to leave Toodledo, as this is still a massive price increase (Individual plan is twice the Gold plan).


Combine old users leaving and new users running away (the plan is now super expensive compared to competition, and the promised changes are at best months away) and you risk being forced out at worst possible time, whether you like it or not.

I have a subscription which I just prepaid year ahead at $30 and I am walking away now, while I can do it at my pace.


This message was edited Oct 17, 2018.
kenckar

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 3 Reference
Dear ToodleDo,

I understand that you need to get revenue to earn back your purchase price. It's business. With the current product, I doubt that I would pay the new price, but I have about two years left. So basically I am fine for now.

I don't see what improvements you can make to improve the product enough to justify the steep price hike for me. Most of the suggested improvements are not for functions I need, but who knows?

I hope you keep the Habits functionality, but please fix the averaging algorithm. It treats a data point of 0 (zero) as a null. 0 is a data point if it is entered; if not it's null. I can fix this for you if you send me the code.

I suspect that given the competitive landscape, it will be difficult to justify the large price hike. You will likely lose some subscribers as their plans roll off. You will have to race to make sure the biggest improvements come out before you start to bleed too much.

Regards,
Tony


This message was edited Oct 17, 2018.
Ummagumma

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 1 Reference
Posted by jzamoras:
I renewed silver 2 years ahead about 1 month ago so I'm ok for now, but at this price point there are better alternatives.


Heck, for me at this price point there are free alternatives. I make heavy use of Start date based filtering but could care less about Contexts or Goals (and these are easily reproducible via tags anyway).

I just realized that with one of the recent updates, GoodTask made it possible to create a custom Focus view combining in-process tasks, overdue tasks, and undated / future tasks that have Top priority (my surrogate method for Starring a task). GoodTask syncs via iOS Reminders to Outlook and unlike 2Do, it syncs Start Dates. It also uses a plan text Tagging method that can also be used in Outlook. So, between GoodTask on my iOS devices, and Outlook on my work and home computers, I can replicate most of the features I used in Toodledo (mainly, advanced custom filtering using Start dates), using Reminders as a sync engine. There are some negatives - I need to make some adjustments to my workflow ( e.g. Outlook doesn’t allow to have a Start date without a Due date), the subtask implementation is atrocious in GoodTask and non-existent in Outlook, no attachments (which I haven’t been using nearly as much as I though I would), and my only web access is via iCloud Reminders. On the other hand, I gain push sync, the ability to create tasks directly from Outlook or OneNote or any app on iOS that supports Reminders, and no subscription.
akorvemaker

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 3 Reference
I'm disgusted and severely disappointed by the price hike.

At $20/year, it was an excellent product for the price (and it was only $15 only 2 years ago...).

At $60/year, for the exact same features, it's just not. My first thought was, "WTF?! They can't be serious!" It almost felt like it had to be a (poorly executed) April Fools joke.

$5/month should not be the default minimum price for every service.

I've loved Toodledo for years. I'm really disappointed, but I'm not staying at that price point. I guess I have to look at alternatives. And I'm sad, because I really liked Toodledo.
aleding

Posted: Oct 17, 2018
Score: 5 Reference
Posted by aaron.c.salls:
Thanks for the feedback, and I appreciate folks keeping this constructive.

You all raise some great points. Indeed, this was not an easy decision to make. We believe this is a necessary step in positioning Toodledo in the market and sustaining the business.

We decided to share this because historically, it was focused investment in Tasks that made Toodledo valuable to you, and that investment had waned over time. No more. We are getting back to the core of what makes Toodledo great and refocusing our efforts around task management. We believe there’s plenty we can do to improve the ease-of-use, much smart multi-select and batch editing, more search parameters, and bringing our mobile app development in-house to ensure a much more consistent experience across platforms. There are product design problems we can solve, and looking through forums shows plenty of feedback and bug reports that we want to be more responsive to.

Some folks have already made up their minds, but the reason we shared this now is because it provides transparency and holds us accountable. You'll have a chance to see for yourself over the coming weeks if our momentum earns your support going into 2019.


My Dad had a great saying when I was growing up that seems quite appropo for this situation...

"Well son, you got the talkin' part done..."

Thereby more than implying that I needed to get to work fulfilling the expectations I already set...

You guys have shared a lot of rhetoric and produced a new front page - again, that is a zero value add. And now you have thrown down the gauntlet, so to speak, in terms of value. No more words can justify this pricing so you now need to just knuckle up and produce...

My judgement remains reserved and my fingers remain crossed..let's see what you guys can do...
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