ForumsQuestionsSubfolders... C'mon people! Add this feature!!

Subfolders... C'mon people! Add this feature!!
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Posted: Apr 11, 2011
Score: 0 Reference
I believe that TD has already answered that question a few weeks ago:

[quote} We have decided to not pursue multiple levels of subtasks for the time being. It adds too much complexity to the UI, which is already pretty complex. We will leave it on our to-do list, and maybe we will revisit the decision in the future. [/quote]

Maybe you, and they, consider sub-folders different than sub-tasks, but it seems to me that in terms of complexity of the UI, they would have many of the same issues. I consider one of the most basic flaws of TD to be the cluttered UI (which they are working on). Add subfolders what do you have? An even bigger mess! YMMV.

Posted: Apr 14, 2011
Score: 0 Reference
Another vote for subfolders!!!

Posted: May 27, 2011
Score: 0 Reference
Definitely another vote for sub-folders. I have used Toodledo for years now, and it is the one thing seriously lacking in the program. Other than it, it is perfect.

As to UI messiness: honestly, hire a couple UI designers. No feature automatically causes a complex UI – some features are just more difficult to design in with good UI. It just takes effort and a little expertise. I may require some redesign of the current UI to fit it in, but it's definitely possible.

(I even have some ideas of how to do it easily. Feel free to email me if you want some advice.:)
Josh Mattern

Posted: Jul 06, 2011
Score: 0 Reference
I would really like sub-folders added, for what it's worth. I would also like to see a better way to pull "next actions" to the front of the line when reviewing tasks and projects.

Posted: Oct 27, 2011
Score: 0 Reference
What is it with these developers that REFUSE to ALLOW us to use sub-folders??? The guy from Nozbe is the same way. He claims that is strictly against David Allen's intention with GTD. I don't know if I agree with this at all. I'm going to call David Allen myself and figure this out. I was using Action Lists for iphone. Awesome app. I wish it had a calendar that synced with google calendar and I wish it didn't sync to this platform that DOESN'T ALLOW SUB-FOLDERS!! Then it would be spot on perfect.

Hey Developer!! If you are reading, why do you care so much about limiting our usage of your product? You could simply have the sub-folders feature something that could be turned on or off in the settings of a PAID!!! account. Sounds like you could make more money this way. Not sure what the problem is...

Posted: Oct 27, 2011
Score: 2 Reference
I've been investigating Jake and the TD team, and have found disturbing information. It turns out that their whole purpose in life, according to some of his closest friends, is to make us TD users as miserable as possible. That's why he created TD in the first place, he wanted to make a bunch of people he's never even met as unhappy as he could. Kinda like the Tylenol murderer, only even more insidious!

We're on to you, Jake! ;-)

This message was edited Oct 27, 2011.

Toodledo Founder
Posted: Oct 27, 2011
Score: 1 Reference
@tommyasiegel: Its not that we hate subfolders. Its that we haven't had time to build it yet. Its on our to-do list for the future.

@Salgud: Lately, I've been wondering what Toodledo's net contribution to world productivity has been. I wish there was a way to measure hours saved or stress eliminated per person.

Posted: Oct 27, 2011
Score: 0 Reference
Posted by Toodledo:

@Salgud: Lately, I've been wondering what Toodledo's net contribution to world productivity has been. I wish there was a way to measure hours saved or stress eliminated per person.

A lot of people come here every day saying how much they like TD and how much it's helped them. I can only speak for myself. It makes working in this nuthouse bearable for me, and that's no small accomplishment.

Posted: Oct 27, 2011
Score: 0 Reference
Posted by Toodledo:
@Salgud: Lately, I've been wondering what Toodledo's net contribution to world productivity has been. I wish there was a way to measure hours saved or stress eliminated per person.
In terms of hours saved, I'd say that Toodledo has a net loss: It takes time to learn Toodledo (the website and other devices), to enter old task lists, to add new tasks, to organize them, and to review them, before acting on them. It takes time to keep up with changes in the software and to integrate the tasks with other systems. And, as with anything new, some people will stick with it and some won't.

In terms of stress reduced (not eliminated), it's probably a net gain. I agree with what Michael Linenberger says in his book Master your workday Now!:
while some organization efforts many not pay off in terms of direct efficiency gains, I do think that there is value to the feeling of being organized; and that feeling can translate indirectly into more efficient work.
Torbjörn Hedberg

Posted: Oct 28, 2011
Score: 0 Reference
Just my two cents as a pro user, really depending on TD:

Much more important than subfolders would be improvement of the current subaction funtionality.
1. Easier/more ways to make an action a subaction. Another choice in the action menu - "Move"?
2. An indication when viewing a Subaction showing which action it belongs to. For example: a column showing the first word from the parent action subject, with a mouseover showing the whole subject. We could the use this "first word" to indicate a project name or id.

And by the way: I agree with the TD team that the general GUI concept in TD probably does not allow any decently useable way of supporting subfolders/subactions. They would have to do a major rewrite. And on iPhone app too. They need a lot of people paying $15 to finance it...
Folke X

Posted: Nov 01, 2011
Score: 0 Reference

I think part of the problem is the fact that there is such an enormous number of feature requests representing such a vast spectrum of "user styles" or "task management philosophies".

Honestly, when I read the forum, in probably more than 90% of the cases I think "Why would anybody ever want that. It's a dead end". Conversely, whenever I suggest something that I think would save my day, and perhaps save Toodledo's bottom line, too, I seldom get any favorable responses. And there is nothing strange about this.

Of course the reason for all this is the fact that we are all different, and we all use Toodledo in a way that suits our preferences and our personal capabilites to come up with the best usage of Toodledos features for what we believe to be our needs and our most fruitful avenues to satisfy those needs.

But I have wondered many times (and even brought up in some posts, at least indirectly) whether it would be possible in a meaningful way to classify users in a few broad categories of "task management approaches", each having slightly different needs. If such a categorization were feasible, then it may also be feasible to develop whole kits of features - along with usage guidelines - for each category, and possible for Toodledo to get paid for these feature packs separately (different "Pro" add-on packages).

As an example of one major difference that I have noticed between users is:

People who want to get things on the list, but wish to continually and manually adjust what is going to be done next (because they pereceive their life/work to be too fluid to be planned ahead in too much detail). GTDers are in this queue-and-review camp, and so are many others. I am one of those. Personally I like to add various elements of "automatic attention-bringing" to a pure GTD approach, but I do rest firmly on the principle of reviewing and rearranging my lists.

People who want to nail down the exact time slot for everything directly (because they perceive that their life/work is predictable enough to allow them to do so). I suppose the main reason why these users want a to-do list rather than a regular calendar is the fact that you can check thing off, have reminders sent etc.

I sometimes get the feeling that some wish to use the system to actually decide for them what to do. By assigning dates, priorities and many other data values, they seem to be hoping that a the most rational decision possible about what to do next will pop up automatically. (This probably is not a true description, but you sometimes can get this impression.)

These approaches implicitly call for different menus (views), different fields and hierachies, and different funcionality for finding and filtering and sorting and so on.

Obviously there are many other differences as well between different users, for example whether you use Toodledo alone or as a team, for large projects or small ones, etc etc., but if it were possible to categorize the usage and create specific setup packages and/or Pro packages for each, then we might find a way forward. Usage guidelines for each intended use would help many, and probably would reduce the number of feature requests - as I believe many of these requests stem from the present need for users to invent their own wheel from scratch. (For example, even the basic default menu has no explanations. Where am I recommended to start my day? Under Folders? Tags? Important? Due date? And then what, if I want to look ahead a bit? Or add a new project? Under what view am I recommended to do this? And what fields am I recommemnded to use for what purpose? If there are additional menu setups, each one needs such a guidleline.)

The question now at hand, sub-folders, really boils down to how one might wish to organize his or her data - for what purpose in the workflow. We are talking about hierarchy. Hiearchies could (theoretically) be implemented for all fields (tasks already have a sub-level, and to some extent goals, too; folders are proposed in this thread, and contexts, locations, tags and task names could also have hierarchies). Hierarchies can be very useful and they can also cause confusion.

The question is, perhaps: What are subfolders needed for? To achieve what? In what kind of task management approach?

But personally I don't mind if there are sub-folders - I won't get confused ;)

As an alternative that you might wish to consider (that I use currently for hierarchical purposes) is to name my tags as groups of tags sharing a common prefix. Then in your saved searches you can select those that begin with a given prefix, to get a rough filtering, and then in the Show filter you can select any particular sub-tag, to avoid having to have each filtering saved as a separate search.

This message was edited Nov 02, 2011.
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