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IceHeartX

Posted Sep 13, 2009 in: is this intended functionality?
Score: 0
to chime in with my thanks too anders, your links have come in handy for me in a couple contexts.
IceHeartX

Posted Sep 13, 2009 in: it'd be nice to be able to
Score: 0
edit the divider's names in place

and if you had the option to add an new divider with a button at the bottom, which solves the having to change screens within toodledo to modify some dropdown list contents
IceHeartX

Posted Sep 12, 2009 in: Understanding "Next Actions"
Score: 0
Posted by Claudio:

IceHeartX, there are many ways that "Next Action" can be interpreted. I realize that you are asking Proximo but I'll offer my thoughts.


I was asking all of the people who were already engaged in a conversation I was finding interesting reading. While some of my points were addressed more towards proximo's take on things I was addressing everyone or I'd have sent a private message ;)

I'm not aiming to challenge anyone's process, I'm aiming to improve mine, by understanding why other people's work for them. Make sense?

I'm going to quote you out of order


For me, a "Next Action" is the next physical action that I need to do to move towards a desired outcome or goal.
"1) any action that's actionable right now is a next action."
Not quite. Just because it is actionable, doesn't mean that it is the next action. It could be actionable but it won't move towards the actual desired result, although often it will move towards another (somewhat desirable) result.


ok, this is a modification of my earlier example with a little more meat on its bones. so we can discuss

( work ) (context)
( new accounting report ) (due: 2 days) (project/folder)
( add a conversion to euro column ) (estimate:40 mins, context:work) (task)
( look up unicode character for euro ) (status:next action, context:bandwidth) (subtask)
( change the hover color of the row hi-lite to "alice blue" ) (estimate:10 mins, context:work) (task)
( make sure that the text contrasts properly with the new blue ) (status:next action, context:work)(subtask)

am I categorizing things in some fashion that will come back to bite me here?

here I have a project with two next actions (no?), equally valid (@work does not exclude @bandwidth in my universe)

say I change the status on the color change so that the "lookup unicode" is the only next action.
Say I have 20 minutes at work waiting for my wife to show up, that's enough to do that 10 minute task, but if it's not on my next action list, when I check my lists to see what I should do - the 40 minute task won't fit - so I'm missing a chance to move the project along.


A Next Action is "Next" only in relation to a Project, not in relation to other actions for other projects. In that sense, it is the highest priority of all actions that are part of that Project, but it is even more than that. It's the single most important physical action that will move towards the completion of a desired outcome. It might even be the only thing. The idea of precursors is useful but it's more related to project management than it is to GTD.


ok, gtd, fundamentally, I'm supposed to get everything on paper as I think of it, right?
then, I process them and turn them into tasks, projects, goals, etc.

item a from my inbox turns into project a with task a and task b
task a is something that I can't do until I do task c so I add that too.
task b is not tied directly to task a, but still furthers project a

I'd classify a & c as next actions, because I could be doing either one as soon as I am in the correct context. but this breaks according to the following statement

A project can have many possible actions but only one "Next Action". This is true practically by definition. There's only one thing that is "Next". Everything else will come afterwards.
You have to start with something, with one thing. It's nice to think that you have options but you have to choose. Without a "Next Action" you won't do anything.


"If I've decided on a rule about only one next action per project am I not essentially exploding the number of needed projects?"

I don't get the connection between the number of Next Actions and the number of projects.


In response to the concept that each project should only have one next action, I extrapolated backwards from the large number of next actions that I currently have under my current definition. assume I have 5 next actions per project. If the number of next actions is correct and I should have one next action per project that means I have only 1/5th the number of projects that I should have. I may be misinterpreting.

A project can have many possible actions but only one "Next Action". This is true practically by definition. There's only one thing that is "Next".


I have a todo list here of about 350 items. my inbox is empty. I've got all my tickets divvied up into the right contexts, what I consider to be reasonable granularity of time measurement and projects which have specific concrete goals. Many of these items are all simultaneously possible because physically they all require the same thing : me in front of a computer. I guess what I don't understand is how a project can have only one next action when a project is any multi-step task.

Also, I don't get what you mean about "a smaller list without hiding things that you could be doing". Any sublist (or filtered list) will be shorter than the whole list. The idea is to be viewing those actions that are do-able here and now.


I don't understand how you can have a comprehensive list of things you could be doing here and now if you're only marking one next action per project, but the project has many moving parts.

Sorry. I hope that you'll find some of my points useful.


Sorry? viewpoints are valueable. why discount yours?


This message was edited Sep 12, 2009.
IceHeartX

Score: 0
Posted by mr_many_notes:
Hi,

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, although it converts the characters correctly, overall it doesn't work because each of my tasks has a multi-line note, which displays (of course) on a separate line for each line, and so looks like lots of different tasks.

To give a simplified example of something which should be just 1 excel row, but looks to the system like 3 rows (i.e. 3 tasks):
TASK, NOTE
"my task", "my note line 1
my note line 2
my note line 3"

I also tried to point Excel at the CSV file downloaded (rather than the one saved as text), as follows:
Data->Import External Data->Import Data

This also gave the same multi-line problem.

Any other ideas? Thanks.


there should be an option when you import to specify if the values are quoted. if they are, it shouldn't care about the newlines.
IceHeartX

Posted Sep 11, 2009 in: Understanding "Next Actions"
Score: 0
Argh. I have a whole reply typed out that won't submit because the forum thinks there's a swear word in it. But I can't find one and now it's driving me crazy. is there a list of disallowed words anywhere?

This message was edited Sep 11, 2009.
IceHeartX

Score: 0
Posted by Toodledo:
We do plan to make the defaults more persistent and to allow subtasks to optionally inherit information from their parent.


yay. maybe I won't start ripping through your api docs just yet.
IceHeartX

Score: -1
square checkmarks for completed, round radio-style buttons for multi-item selection.
IceHeartX

Posted Sep 11, 2009 in: Due on/Due by iphone sync issue
Score: 0
Posted by chmosconi:

Additional info, I am also using pocket informant on the iphone, which syncs with toodledo. Could that be messing things up somehow? I'll open a ticket up on this.


I'd say that PI's sync is broken. I use both the official TD app and PI and I can see that PI doesn't always sync correctly. I haven't gotten around to sending in trouble tickets to them yet.

there's only a couple features I like about PI over the real app as it is

(google calendar integration is nice, their task view with the multi-colored "pill"s and the "enter multiple tasks" pretty much.)

Sadly the app crashes too frequently to rely on it as my only app despite an overall preference for the PI UI
IceHeartX

Posted Sep 11, 2009 in: Plugin for ActiveWords
Score: 0
So, yeah, active words is pretty awesome, and integration with TD is pretty much a dream come true.

I took the standard td wordbase and shortened a lot of the standard names and genericised them.

n.td - new task
m.td - add multi
s.td - search, etc.

while n.em is a new email in thunderbird and n.gm is a new gmail msg.


I know that n. is always new and just have to remember my program short forms.

oh, and the "find" activeword can be used to give you a quick list of defined words in your base if you name them consistently

find[space][space]n.[enter]

gets me a list of all the fancy new types of things I can create.
IceHeartX

Posted Sep 11, 2009 in: Due on/Due by iphone sync issue
Score: 0
in the last couple days I've had strangeness while syncing as well.

I've lost the status field data, lost some things I starred and had my hotlist fluctuate wildly over the course of multiple syncs with my iphone (during which I had made no changes)

I'm not sure if I was having connection troubles during the sync or what
IceHeartX

Score: 2
Posted by Toodledo:

1. Native iPhone app
2. Google gears (for offline access)
3. Blackberry
4. Windows Mobile devices

What other ones would you like to see?


android OS

the one that I found in the marketplace (I think linked from the page here) was very pre-alpha and read only to boot.
IceHeartX

Score: 0
Posted by Anders:
You could also create the tasks as normal tasks, and then drag them under the parent. That is another step as well, but I thought I'd mention it.


It is a perfectly reasonable way to do it, and that's how I have done it mostly to this point. I enter items through a variety of devices, not all of which support subtasks nicely so I haven't worked them much yet.

(toodledo's iphone app, pocket informant for the iphone, activewords on my various desktops and via email from my android phone (no good apps yet for it=( )

and then just do my inbox review actually in front of the computer.

When I start working with a new system - I haven't been here long - I like to see how things work. I was experimenting to see if I could build things like a

- weekly recurring shopping list (recurs weekly)
- a checklist of items to take care of before a software deployment (recurs at odd intervals so I can't use a repeat on it, I wonder what happens if I clone a parent with repeating children)
- things not to forget when i travel for business (has a mix of repeating and non-repeating tasks depending on where I'm going and what I'm presenting)

I wanted to see how toodledo handled those situations so I was playing with sub tasks and noticed odd behaviour - thought I'd mention it because it is a little obscure so it could have slipped through QA.
IceHeartX

Posted Sep 11, 2009 in: Understanding "Next Actions"
Score: 0
Posted by Proximo:

I can't focus on a list of Actions that contain 100 task and simply say they are all Next Actions. This is just my Action List, my Actionable items. By marking the ones I will focus on that day to move them forward toward completion, I am using Next Actions to my advantage. Not just calling everything in my Actions List a Next Action.

David almost always mentions Next Actions from the perspective of a Project. There is only one Next Action for a Project. Once that action is completed, you can move to the next one on the list.

So why would I call all 100 task in my Action List "Next Actions". To me this goes against that very principle. This will be the equivalent of saying that everything in my Action list needs to be done all at the same time.


I'd like some clarification of your points here. I'm new to GTD so bear with me, i can't quote the books off the top of my head.

I am under the impression that

1) any action that's actionable right now is a next action.

2) just because it's a next action doesn't mean it has a priority - just that it can be done with no precursors or additional set-up.
"take the car for a scheduled tune up 2 days from now" is to me a next action, I've already scheduled the tuneup all I have to do is show up

3) a project may have many possible next actions
my "clean up the office" project has tasks for "move the printer", "dust behind the monitor" and "have a piece of cake" (what, i like cake)
none of those items has a prerequisite (assuming I have a cake to eat) so I have them all marked as next actions on my lists.

my "to do list" contains both actionable items and non. anything non-actionable is in my inbox for processing as per making it work (I generally have

I worry that if I adopt your method, tasks that I could be doing in the 10 minutes - while I'm waiting for the bus, won't occur to me - because while there's nothing stopping me from doing those tasks (my definition of a next action) they might be hidden by my focus (you suggest only a single next action per project)

In a professional capacity, I've got one meta project (the piece of software I write - I use "context" for this) with several projects ( representing areas of functionality inside the software ) and each has one or more tasks. Each task may in fact have sub tasks as I flesh items out, the original item from my inbox is a container for any tasks that arise from that original task, if they don't impact any other task.

for instance

[software] (context)
[accounting reports] (project)
[new feature a] (task)
[ implementation details ] (subtask)
[new feature b] (task)
[ implementation details ] (subtask)

if a and b are unrelated features being implemented into the same location in the application, they could be order independent, and both be next actions.
say that a and b have significantly different timeframes, one will take 10 mins and another an hour. if that hour is demarced as the next action won't you miss chances to take care of the 10 minute task?

If I've decided on a rule about only one next action per project am I not essentially exploding the number of needed projects?

and how do you actually end up with a smaller list without hiding things that you could be doing?


This message was edited Sep 11, 2009.
IceHeartX

Score: 0
Posted by Anders:
The new task defaults only apply to tasks added by using the "Add A Task" button or the keyboard shortcut. I have seen this requested before, but at least one problem is that there are even more people who want subtasks to inherit additional fields from their parent. Obviously those two methods would conflict, but maybe Toodledo will be able to work something out.


Yep, and as a workaround I just have a search for children that don't have a context or tag so that I can quickly go multi-edit them and put a star on so they'll show in my "inbox" - but it's still an extra step until I automate it.
IceHeartX

Posted Sep 11, 2009 in: Custom Status?
Score: 0
Posted by lsrivers:
Is there a way to edit the values of the status field?
Would love to use this tool for managing project tasks with my iPhone. It would be great to have status follow the phases of project management.


you could use one of the freeform fields to do that. status is pretty set in stone as far as I know. I've tried using folders, contexts and subtasks and I still find that tags are where I put project phases.

(ie. I have "design", "wireframe","approval","mockup","functional prototype","polish" and "deploy" as project phases)

the point of the status field seems to be specifically GTD related.
IceHeartX

Posted Sep 11, 2009 in: is this intended functionality?
Score: 0
http://twitpic.com/hbv80

so, task 1 was my original parent, subtask with repeat and subtask without repeat were added at the same time, then I clicked complete - which created a new task 1

then I added taskb to the new instance of task 1 (which at the time contained subtask with repeat) and clicked complete on the task 1 instance. the result is in the screenshot.

I'd have expected 2 more instances of subtask with repeat that I'm not seeing.

EDIT: formatting for ease of reading.


This message was edited Sep 11, 2009.
IceHeartX

Posted Sep 11, 2009 in: is this intended functionality?
Score: 0
Posted by Anders:
1) Yes
2) That's how repeating tasks work. I'm not really sure what else you might have expected. There is a good explanation of how repeating subtasks work on this page: http://www.toodledo.com/info/subtasks.php

Edit: Wait a minute I just reread your post. Are you saying that the repeating subtask was not regenerated under the parent, or that the completed copy was not left under the completed parent?


I would have expected that I'd have a completed repeating child task in the original parent task (behaviour similar to what happened with the non-repeating child) and a new one in the new instance.

but no, I end up with two parents and only one of them has the repeating sub task.
IceHeartX

Score: 0
I have my defaults set to turn the on the star (so i know it's new) and add "added on toodledo" so I can easily differentiate which input method I use to enter a particular task in my inbox.

when I add a new subtask (clicking the add subtask button on my task list) I get a single input box asking for the name of the new task.

the new task doesn't have the star or the tag, and I've lost the ability to effectively see new tasks as any children i create won't have the indicators that I use to determine if a task is new.
IceHeartX

Posted Sep 11, 2009 in: Sync GTD Outlook Addin Custom Fields
Score: 0
does the outlook sync use goals? goals work really well as persistent short term projects, and it's not a default GTD field
IceHeartX

Score: 0
currently the trash and note icons are offscreen 99.9% of the time for me as I need my cols a little wider than the defaults.
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