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Locations, Reverse Sort, and More



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eykanal

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 0



Unfortunately, I have to state that I'm disappointed with the latest addition. The location feature is a nifty little trick, but for almost all of my tasks I know exactly where to do it, and for most of my tasks the location is the name of the folder (work, home, etc.). I can't imagine that adding a map to Toodledo was one of the most requested features. Even more so, while this feature may be useful, I have a hard time believing that this is a deal-breaker for some people ("oh, I can't pin a location on a given point in the map... nope, I ain't using THAT software!").

From a different angle, you folks have received feedback from many users here in these forums that the user interface needs a significant overhaul. That you would spend your valuable time adding a "gimmicky" feature instead of overhauling an aging and significantly lacking aspect of Toodledo makes me seriously concerned about how the Toodledo team prioritizes their time. I'm sorry I can't say something nice about this addition, but that's my take on this update.


This message was edited Aug 26, 2010.
Claudio

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 1



@eykanal, I echo your sentiments.

After about a day of thinking about it, I can't come up with a good reason for using the location feature. The best I can come up with is: It's cool.

Perhaps someone else can explain how this feature is useful.

As for "how the Toodledo team prioritizes their time", it's clear that Jake's priorities are different from those of many Toodledo users.
Dave

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 1



I agree with you guys. I have only been in the forums since last fall but I don't remember seeing this asked for, but I and many others have constantly been asking for sharing. I don't see how I will ever use it.
melchizW

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 0



Sorting is very useful for me , thanks ! : )
Claudio

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 0



@melchiz1, yes the sorting is more useful than it used to be.

But, the descending sort is available only on the first field, and when you click on a field to sort, you lose the second and third sort. And, although one of the benefits of a Pro subscription is being able to sort on three fields instead of two (and automatically save that Sort for that View), you go back to one field every time you click on a field to sort -- the other two fields change to Auto.

In any case, if your comment was directed at my request "Perhaps someone else can explain how this feature is useful", I was referring to the Location feature. Of course, it's not always about me, so chances are your comment had nothing to do with I said. ;)


This message was edited Aug 26, 2010.
Claudio

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 1



Posted by Dave:
I have only been in the forums since last fall but I don't remember seeing this asked for, but I and many others have constantly been asking for sharing.
And, constantly asking for the ability to sort tasks manually, and multi-edit without Search, and edit the Date Completed, and more than one level of subtasks, and a major overhaul of the interface, and ...
Linden

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 0



Wow, so much hate! There actually HAD been a focused clammer for location-aware tasks for a while, and those users were polite enough to trust it was on the todo list and not hammer the forum with repeated requests. Kudos to Toodledo for making it happen. It's not useful for me, but I expect it will make life a lot easier for those userw who wanted it (and others who hadn't considered it).

I LOVE the update to sorting, and the fact that the toolbars will remember if they're supposed to be open or closed. Those were both very frustrating for me and I'm glad to see improvement.

I'm looking forward to seeing whatever's next on the list of things under way.
Scott

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 0



When locations hit the iPhone, I seriously will consider my iTunes ban and jump on this. It's not a huge feature for me currently in the browser but location aware tasks while mobile are going to be amazing. Taking this update as a first step towards that functionality - I'm excited by the possibilities.

App updates are always a mixed bag - you love them if your desired feature (which obviously is the most important and most pressing) is present and hate them if it's not. Me, I'd love to see the ability to manually change the task completed date but whatever, I'm still productive.

sb
Claudio

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 0



Posted by Scott:
When locations hit the iPhone, I seriously will consider my iTunes ban and jump on this. It's not a huge feature for me currently in the browser but location aware tasks while mobile are going to be amazing. Taking this update as a first step towards that functionality - I'm excited by the possibilities.
Serious and genuine question: What are the possibilities? I really don't see any value for a location-aware task manager, but I am willing to be enlightened.
Thanks.
SRhyse

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 0



Posted by Claudio:
Posted by Scott:
When locations hit the iPhone, I seriously will consider my iTunes ban and jump on this. It's not a huge feature for me currently in the browser but location aware tasks while mobile are going to be amazing. Taking this update as a first step towards that functionality - I'm excited by the possibilities.
Serious and genuine question: What are the possibilities? I really don't see any value for a location-aware task manager, but I am willing to be enlightened.
Thanks.

Speaking as someone that's not going to get any use out of the location feature, now or likely ever, even if it's mobile or beamed into my brain-

Location based alerts.

Imagine you're a contractor, and you're working on multiple job sites. You have all your tasks in for each site, and an iPhone with Toodledo's app having location based alerts. Roll up to the job site, your phone bings, and you have a sorted list of everything you need to do there. As your leaving the site and driving home, Bing, stop by the hardware store to replace the hammer you broke.

Or you're walking by your bank, and you need a roll of quarters, but you don't remember that you need a roll of quarters, because you put it into Location Aware Toodledo and forgot about it. Bing, look at iPhone, "Pick up quarters if you swing by the bank."

Pass by Barnes and Noble, Bing, look at your phone, "Go buy that one book you wanna read to avoid having to do your work."

Again, I don't give a damn about this for my personal use, and would rather have almost any of the features mentioned in this thread over location awareness if it was an either/or game of programming (which I know as a developer it really isn't). But using this in conjunction with a mobile, location aware device as most smart phones are now, seems self explanatory,
PeterW 

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 1



Posted by Linden:
Wow, so much hate! There actually HAD been a focused clammer for location-aware tasks for a while, and those users were polite enough to trust it was on the todo list and not hammer the forum with repeated requests.

Hi Linden,

I didn't read any of the above posts as "hate" but rather as disappointment because the maps didn't seem to be on the radar.

I was expecting this update to be a revamp of the collaboration & sharing features which get talked about a lot here (albeit something else I don't really need).

The things I am really hanging out for are:
* UI overhaul (drag & drop, manual sorting, nicer look)
* Task counts on search tabs
* More granular control over the Hotlist
* Additional options for parent-task/sub-task handling

I'm glad that there was a fix for the SMS message problem - it's the one thing I found useful in this update. I hope that there are more minor fixes on the way - sometimes a bunch of small improvements can make a lot of difference.

I don't use the TD iPhone app so I hope the website gets a good share of Toodledo's development resources over the next 6 months.
Scott

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 0



I think it depends on what sort of tasks you're managing and how important location is.

For me, this is the scenario I'm seeing. I've got 30 minutes and I'm on the west side, what do I have to do that is in this area, what is close to here? My phone knows where I am, Toodledo knows where the stuff I need to do is, pulling this together to make sure I don't miss anything while I can match the time and location is huge.

Pay water bill, go to post office, buy cat food, return $5 to Joe, return a library book, pick up a movie, water the plants for fred, drop off business cards at the coworking spot, get guitar strings, get prescription from target, look at new printer, check out new book store, stop in say hey to Sandra sometime, or Bill or Ted, get oil change, buy a new pillow, shop for socks

All of these might be on my todo list. If Toodledo can tell me where I can do this stuff or how to combine these tasks in a more efficient manner that would be huge for me.

sb
Boxin

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: -1



Obviously not everyone needs the location feature, probably just a few do, but it's reasonable to have it in Toodledo (from the point of view of site development), as RTM already has it.
Claudio

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 1



@Boxin, yes RTM has locations, but it also has multi-edit without search, Quick Add, actual sharing, more advanced quick search, a print function, and a cleaner interface, all of which have often been requested by Toodledo users, some for more than two years.
Claudio

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 0



@SRhyse, thanks for your examples, but they involve location-based alerts which are quite different from what is currently available, but I can see how that would be a natural extension of locations. In your example, though, why does the contractor need alerts at the job site? He knows where he is and he can very easily look at the relevant tasks, based on Context, Folders, or Tags.

Your examples about picking up quarters or books seem a bit of a stretch, but I'll acknowledge some potential value of (currently unavailable) location-based alerts.


This message was edited Aug 26, 2010.
Claudio

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 0



Posted by Scott:
For me, this is the scenario I'm seeing. I've got 30 minutes and I'm on the west side, what do I have to do that is in this area, what is close to here? My phone knows where I am, Toodledo knows where the stuff I need to do is, pulling this together to make sure I don't miss anything while I can match the time and location is huge.
How does Toodledo know where the stuff you need to do is? You would have had to entered all the locations for the errands in your task list. Is this practical and realistic? And then you still have to look at your phone to find out what Toodledo knows, right? It's then quite easy to see your list of errands, even without Locations.

In your example, how often are you on the west side? If you are there regularly and you are familiar with the area, then all you need is a list of errands, perhaps organized by Folder, Context, or Tag. If you are rarely on the west side, then it seems highly unlikely that you would key in locations in that area (find it on the map, mark it, and label it as a location) for items like "pick up movie" or "return a library book".
Pay water bill, go to post office, buy cat food, return $5 to Joe, return a library book, pick up a movie, water the plants for fred, drop off business cards at the coworking spot, get guitar strings, get prescription from target, look at new printer, check out new book store, stop in say hey to Sandra sometime, or Bill or Ted, get oil change, buy a new pillow, shop for socks.
I won't address each point individually, but I can see how a few of them might benefit from a location-aware task list.
Thanks.


This message was edited Aug 26, 2010.
Scott

Posted: Aug 26, 2010
Score: 0



I guess I see this similarly to contexts - If I'm at my office I could just go through and scan my whole list and hope to find all the tasks that involve my office but I don't need to. Being able to say - show me what I can do in this area is the same thing. I could scan my list of errands and try to remember what is close to each other and what things I can group together - or it can do it for me.

Ideally I think this will eventually be smart enough to hook up to other location based services or even my contact list or CRM so I can just say Target and it will search and find the nearest one automatically.

thanks
sb
Boxin

Posted: Aug 27, 2010
Score: 0



Posted by Claudio:
@Boxin, yes RTM has locations, but it also has multi-edit without search, Quick Add, actual sharing, more advanced quick search, a print function, and a cleaner interface, all of which have often been requested by Toodledo users, some for more than two years.


You know RTM so well, and I never realize there are so many things that RTM can do while Toodledo can't, in fact I thought it was the opposite.

I need advanced/global quick search badly, even the android app "Got to Do" has this feature at its initial version. If possible, introducing search modifiers are much welcomed, for instance, typing "context:home" will show all tasks assigned with context "home", "folder:financial" for all tasks under the financial folder, then we don't need so many views or tabs, also saving lots of time switching between views or tabs as well.


This message was edited Aug 27, 2010.
Linden

Posted: Aug 27, 2010
Score: 1



Posted by PeterW:
Posted by Linden:
Wow, so much hate! There actually HAD been a focused clammer for location-aware tasks for a while, and those users were polite enough to trust it was on the todo list and not hammer the forum with repeated requests.


I didn't read any of the above posts as "hate" but rather as disappointment because the maps didn't seem to be on the radar.

I was expecting this update to be a revamp of the collaboration & sharing features which get talked about a lot here (albeit something else I don't really need).

The things I am really hanging out for are:
* UI overhaul (drag & drop, manual sorting, nicer look)
* Task counts on search tabs
* More granular control over the Hotlist
* Additional options for parent-task/sub-task handling

I'm glad that there was a fix for the SMS message problem - it's the one thing I found useful in this update. I hope that there are more minor fixes on the way - sometimes a bunch of small improvements can make a lot of difference.


I guess that's true, Peter. It was just really astonishing to see so many "why why why this" messages. There were 2-3 posts of "this is a good start" followed by a bunch of "this is totally irrelevant". I agree that this update only hit two minor ones for me. Still, this is another 4-5 items off the development list (fuelled by user requests), including one big one, and my guess is that other big projects like collaboration and UI are being sketched right now.

If they want to do it right the first time, instead of tweaking it dramatically every 3 months, they need to map out the impacts and plan for how pieces of the puzzle interlock. There's always going to be someone who tries to use the system differently from the norm (or who won't want t use a feature), so they need to ensure the site doesn't blow up for those people. I get the sense that there's movement in those areas, but they simply aren't ready for release yet.

My concern is that when update posts like this one get weighed down with tons of negativity, motivation to work on other updates drops. Why bother? Nobody's satisfied when updates DO get completed. I'm sure it's not at that point, but it can be a slippery slope. With a project used by as many people as Toodledo, every update (no matter HOW useful) is going to only be a benefit to a minority of the users.

Constructive criticism is great, but let's keep in mind that continual forward motion is something we want to encourage. Otherwise you end up with a disconnect between creator and user, like what happened with RTM.
Claudio

Posted: Aug 27, 2010
Score: -1



Linden, I agree with you in principle, but let's take a look at the specifics:
If they want to do it right the first time, instead of tweaking it dramatically every 3 months, they need to map out the impacts and plan for how pieces of the puzzle interlock.
The Location feature as currently implemented (without a mobile option and without alerts) is practically useless. Obviously, Toodledo is not "doing it right the first time."
my guess is that other big projects like collaboration and UI are being sketched right now.
Who knows? Jake doesn't tell us what he's working on so all we can do is guess.

From your earlier post:
There actually HAD been a focused clammer for location-aware tasks for a while, and those users were polite enough to trust it was on the todo list and not hammer the forum with repeated requests. Kudos to Toodledo for making it happen.
Interesting distinction between "clammer" and "hammer". So, are you saying that the Location feature was implemented because users were polite???
With a project used by as many people as Toodledo, every update (no matter HOW useful) is going to only be a benefit to a minority of the users.
Not sure about every update being of benefit to a minority of users, but there are small minorities and large minorities. I think it's clear that few users were asking for Location, and even fewer were asking for it as currently implemented. Meanwhile, other more frequently requested features sit on the back burner.
Otherwise you end up with a disconnect between creator and user, like what happened with RTM.
But, it's already happening, and, frankly, I don't see any indication from Jake that the disconnect will improve.

Too bad. He has done a lot of things right, but, he seems to be arbitrary in his selection of which features to implement. And, it seems that's what he prefers: To be unpredictable, so that he "doesn't tip off his competitors."

Let's see how it goes.
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