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Toodledo is not for GTD



AuthorMessage
miicah

Posted: Feb 24, 2009
Score: 0



Hi!

The lack of real approach for 'projects' shows that this tool is not for GTD.

Watch a video about Things or OmniFocus. That is how projects should be handled.

And don't try to explain about subtasks... subtask is a subtask - not a project.
johnwin

Posted: Feb 25, 2009
Score: 0



Are 'Folders' not the perfect proxy for Projects?
miicah

Posted: Feb 27, 2009
Score: 0



Posted by johnwin:
Are 'Folders' not the perfect proxy for Projects?


They are too difficult to add...
onstott

Posted: Feb 27, 2009
Score: 0



In Making it All Work, David Allen says that the relation of individual next actions to projects is a nice to have feature of list management software, but not a necessity. With that, I have found just creating a "Projects" context enables me to easily maintain and access a projects list. I just review the list periodically to reflect on the things I've accomplished related to them and what next actions must be taken to complete them.

This message was edited Feb 27, 2009.
johnwin

Posted: Feb 27, 2009
Score: 0



Posted by miicah:
They are too difficult to add...


miicah - in what way do you find adding folders too difficult?
miicah

Posted: Feb 28, 2009
Score: 0



When you go to add folder page... there is now fast way to come back to todo-list. And it is impossible to add folder with iPhone. And another thing - it is impossible to attach folder to some context or goal or... Folders are not for projects.
Frantz Nelson

Posted: Feb 28, 2009
Score: 0



I actually use the folders to segment my
-Inbox
-Work related items
-Personal related items
-Client accounts/related items

Being that I don't need to use tags I use that feature for my projects. I then do the same as onstott and list my projects as separate line items in a context list called "Projects" (so that I can add notes). I also tie the context entries to the respective project tag. This way when looking at my tags (which are my projects), my project context item appear at the top with all the project notes.

I confused myself explaining that (it works though)... All that to say that you can make the application work for you if you take the time to slice it and dice it the way you want. Took me a few tries to finally get it right. I'm sure I'll tweak it again soon.


This message was edited Feb 28, 2009.
Jake

Toodledo Admin
Posted: Mar 02, 2009
Score: 0



We are working on a way to add folders faster, but I just wanted to point out that you can add folders in our iPhone app.
MisterGrau

Posted: Mar 04, 2009
Score: 0



OmniFocus and Things are MAC only applications. IF you don't feel Toodledo is the right Windows app, what do you suggest?
Swerke

Posted: Mar 05, 2009
Score: 4



I was also quite annoyed with the folder/project issue at first but have now found a system that works fine for me. I have simply created a folder called "Project", in that folder I add tasks without context and these are my project names. I also add a suffix "P-" infront of the name so it is easily distinguished in the lists, e.g. "P-New Computers".
To this task I add subtasks that are not in any folder but instead have a context, e.g:
- Check prices with computer shop. (Context: Phone)

This way when I sort by context I see only my actions and not the project.
If I want to look into my project list I go into the folder "Project" or simply choose to see all tasks without context (as all my actions except the Projects have context). Here I can also expand the subtasks to see all my projects with their attached actions.

When I create my booklet I usually first list all tasks based on context (Home, work, phone etc), after that I put a list of my projects (i.e. the folder Projects) and finally on the backpage my Hotlist. Unfortunately the Projects are listed in the hotlist but as I can easily see which are Projects (by the "P-" suffix) I usually just cross them out by hand.

Don't know how it will work for you but for me it is just the setup I was looking for.
miicah

Posted: Mar 12, 2009
Score: 0



One thing more. If there are no tasks in folder, it does not show up in the list. Bad thing if you want to see if there are projetcs without tasks...

I think toodledo is best now... but it really is not intuitive and easy to approach. As Thing forexample is...
roddyt

Posted: Mar 12, 2009
Score: 0



Posted by miicah:
One thing more. If there are no tasks in folder, it does not show up in the list. Bad thing if you want to see if there are projetcs without tasks...


What list are you referring to? I happen to have an empty folder, and I see it everywhere I normally look at folders, both on the web and the iphone app.
Proximo

Posted: Mar 27, 2009
Score: 2



OK Everyone.

miicah is simply stating the facts here. Toodledo is a great service and I am a Pro Subscriber. The point miicah is making has nothing to do with work around and the innovative ways we make Projects work for us. Especially when trying to follow GTD.

The point is that Toodledo lacks the ability to handle projects correctly and sub-task, which are both required to manage GTD the way it's intended.

Just today I had to struggle with Tag's and Prefix naming on two projects that drove me crazy. I was not "Getting Things Done", but instead wasted valuable time trying to use my own work around for Toodledo's lack of using Projects and Sub-Task correctly.

If you have sub-task. They SHOULD be Nested. That is the only reason the word "SUB" is in front of the task. Toodledo handles these terribly. You can't see the information on sub-task when they are nested. Even if they have a do date assigned, are set to "Next Action" and "Top" Priority. No matter how you spin it. This is a flaw in Toodledo.

Projects should be their own separate area. Not folders, but REAL Projects. This way when you are adding a new task, you can select right then and there if it belongs to a Project. You should also be able to decide a task that you already added, should be part of a project. Click on the task and select a Project pull down list and add it to that project.

I had a sub-task (if you want to consider them that) that belonged to a top level task, which I consider a project. I realized that this sub-task required 5 additional task of it's own, so I wanted to make it a Project. I had to create a new task, name it with my "Project:" prefix. Move the sub-task to that task, rename it also. This is very unproductive.

I am forced to use my SUB-task Not nested in order to properly manage them and this added to the frustration. Now I had to click on the sub-task icon, to get the Nested look and make sure I was moving the right task into the new project (Top level task I created).

Again. This is not about the work around we have all figured out. It's pointing a simple fact. Toodledo does not handle Projects or Sub-task correctly. Not for GTD or any other system.

I love Toodledo and praise all it's other great abilities, but this really needs to be on the top of the list of development changes. Not a work around, or a faster way of doing something. We need real Project Management and Sub-task control.
Proximo

Posted: Mar 27, 2009
Score: 2



I wanted to add something to my statement above. I have used many GTD applications. On-line and stand alone versions. I can't tell you how many I have used and moved from one to another in hopes of finding the perfect system for me.

NOTHING comes close to Toodledo in allowing me to do what I always wanted to do. As a GTDer, I believe Toodledo is the best of the best.

This does not mean it's perfect and nothing usually is. But the lack of proper and true Project Management and sub-task control really frustrates me.

Toodledo needs to focus on Projects and Sub-task functionality and they will set themselves apart from anyone else. I know some people that refuse to use Toodledo because the lack of Projects and Sub-task control. They know it does everything else better than what they are using, but this fundamental ability is missing and it's too bad.

I became a Pro Subscriber in order to support Toodledo's further development, because I believe it's so close to perfection.

Yes, we will always have things we want tweaked, but we would no longer have so many post of how to work around the lack of Projects and sub-task.

I would simply like to hear it straight from Toodledo that they are going to implement a Project system and sub-task control as it should be. The way every other application handles it. That would give me comfort and some patience.

So what do you say Toodledo? Can you tell us for sure that this is something that will be implemented.

Thanks
Claudio

Posted: Mar 27, 2009
Score: 0



Proximo, great posts!

I think that one of the key points is this comment by Toodledo, posted a couple of weeks ago:
It was our intention for Folders to be the same thing as Projects. We just picked the word "Folders" because it was a little more generic.
http://www.toodledo.com/forums/2/1589/0/more-silly-questions.html

Toodledo considers the Project to be the Folder with Tasks, and not the Task with Subtasks. In any case, the implementation of Subtasks is awkward at best.
Proximo

Posted: Mar 28, 2009
Score: 0



Claudio. You just pointed out something that I must add as a flaw. If toodledo intended Folders to be projects, we have a problem. Let's say they simply rename them to Project instead. Will that now correct the problem?

No.

Here is why. When I am at work. I don't care about home related task or anything else. I only want to deal with Work. If I used folder "Projects". I would have no way of looking at all my work related activities. All my work related task that are NOT projects would be in one view. Then I would have Folders "Projects" that can be related to work or home but I won't have the focus to work only.

So now I have several projects and 3 belong to work, 2 are personal. I would have to bounce between work related projects, task and personal all the time to see what is truly going on, without the focus that is required by GTD.

We need to have a Work Folder for ALL work related task and projects. This is why projects should be implemented to work inside of the Folders and allow us to not only see our Work task, but also manage our Work Projects in the same view.

That is how you "Get Things Done". Also, when we add work related task, we would have a pull down option of the current projects we have created and can assign the task to that project. It would still be in my Work folder view and give me focus.
melchizW

Posted: Mar 29, 2009
Score: 0



I think what they meant was " use folders for projects " not necessarily have a single folder called "projects "
For example , if you export from Omni Focus for mac to toodledo , every project becomes a separate folder in toodledo. One thing that must be kept in mind , not everyone that uses Toodledo is practicing GTD as a methodology but are still " getting things done ".

Actually, those that have posted about a single " projects list" with tasks in the notes are doing exactly what David Allen used to do in his palm handheld setup. [documented on his web site ]

I do what anders? does and have a work projects folder, personal projects folder and just list projects as tasks with the "next actions " in notes .. every task has a - in front of it and the current " next action" has a + in front of it . Completed tasks get a x in front of them . I copy/paste the " next " action as a new task into the appropriate context etc . Works very well and is a lot faster than using sub tasks .


This message was edited Mar 29, 2009.
Claudio

Posted: Mar 29, 2009
Score: 0



Posted by Proximo:
When I am at work, I don't care about home related task or anything else. I only want to deal with Work. If I used folder "Projects". I would have no way of looking at all my work related activities.
You can Filter any view by Context. Would that help?
davidholliday

Posted: Mar 29, 2009
Score: 1



Hey Toodledo dudes, I totally agree with proximo regarding the use of sub-tasks. I'd love to see sub-task implemented the way suggested. It would make a great tool even better.
roddyt

Posted: Mar 29, 2009
Score: 0



Posted by Proximo:
When I am at work. I don't care about home related task or anything else. I only want to deal with Work. If I used folder "Projects". I would have no way of looking at all my work related activities. All my work related task that are NOT projects would be in one view. Then I would have Folders "Projects" that can be related to work or home but I won't have the focus to work only.


If you use folders for projects, then you should use contexts for "home" and "work". The key is to change your default view for the web (and iphone if you use it) to be Contexts instead of Folders. You log onto the web site, you pick your context, and off you go. All tasks for that context are in view, the Folder field lists the project.

This is the way I do it. In addition to the folders I create for projects, I have one folder that I have generically named Tasks. This is where I assign any non-project tasks.

I originally started by using the task-subtask method for projects, but I had too much trouble with it, probably for many of the reasons you do. Frustrated, I decided to try using folders for projects. I'm glad I did. In fact, I'm not even using subtasks now.

We need to have a Work Folder for ALL work related task and projects. This is why projects should be implemented to work inside of the Folders and allow us to not only see our Work task, but also manage our Work Projects in the same view.


I would have a problem with this. For me, work and home are not necessarily exclusive. I may have a home project that includes a phone call that I have to make during business hours, which for me, that means I have to make it at work. More often for me it's the other way around. I sometimes have a need to do work at home, like checking a server over the weekend. I'm sure I'm not alone with this kind of crossing. The Work-Home folder division doesn't work in this case, but Work-Home context does. I can review all the tasks related to the project within its folder regardless of where each task may be performed.

Roddy
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