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lite1 |
Posted Jun 08, 2009 in: Official naming in TD: Using "clone" "copy" interchangeably
Score: 0
Thanks Linden ... your description is what I understand, experience, and have tried to describe in my original post. My "objection/concern" is that TD and users are referring to all of these functions and results by using terminology interchangeably when in fact there are distinct categories (that could have there own name/label) which behave differently. It seems that I am the only one who has concern that there is the potential for confusion, so I will drop it. I hope that this does not come to haunt us.
Edward P.S. I'd recommend to TD that this thread be deleted as I do not think that it will be useful to anyone in the near or more distant future. This message was edited Jun 08, 2009. |
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Posted Jun 08, 2009 in: Can't quite make this work (not technically, personally)
Score: 0
Posted by non-profitToolbox.com:
.... I feel better after doing that but find that for some reason I abandon the process shortly. I don't want to drop TD, but I've been unable to stick with it because of convenience and I can't justify it without a solid plan. ...Or is it just plain discipline that is the problem? Thanks for indulging the long question(s). I think the key is continuing to motivate oneself when adopting new/better habits and ways of functioning. Some of what works for me: 1) Appreciate and remind myself of the value (and time savings, clarity, or whatever) when I do follow through with my new habit. 2) Mentally rehearse the situations in which I am most likely to abandon my new habit and then internally rewrite it and visualize myself making the better choice. There are so many effective ways of using TD that I will not comment on your other ?s. As you become more consistent with using it as a support for your life, I expect that you will have insights in to how to refine your own strategy for entry of tasks/subtasks. For me finding the right balance between quick entry that is simple but perhaps might not have all attributes (e.g. tags, context, dates, etc) assigned versus being more thorough is a key. I have found that erring toward quick and simple entry is best for me as I then do it consistently; if then I am consistently finding that a slight bit more time/energy to entering particular types of task has benefit then I'll slowly modify my behavior/use of TD. It is both an individual and evolving process. Edward P.S. Intesting website of yours which I will visit again later. Good luck with your endeavor. If you are not already linked as resource on compasspoint.org in San Fran you might want to explore that. |
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lite1 |
Posted Jun 08, 2009 in: Feature Idea: autohide the left sidebar
Score: 0
Good suggestion IMO. I typically have side bar closed as I want the screen real estate available. Autohide would suit my needs, but more key board shortcuts especially if they are easier for TD to implement is actually my preference.
Somewhat related to the OP suggestion would be to allow for a freeze panes view like is possible say in Excel. Currently if I have to scroll through a long list of tasks, then the various Menu and Option choices at top of screen are out of sight. Some of these do not have keyboard shortcuts and hence I loose time switching from keyboard to mouse and then back again to accomplish what I want. For me one of the greatest time savers and improvements that TD can make is to speed up the process for what most users do the most frequently and I'd expect that this is either adding or editing tasks/subtasks followed by viewing what they have. Edward |
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Posted Jun 08, 2009 in: Editing Multiple Tasks - Without a Search
Score: 0
Posted by Toodledo:
Thanks for the suggestion. A global find and replace functionality across task descriptions is a little beyond the scope of functionality that we envision, but I'll keep it in our notebook for future reference. As always appreciate TDs willingness to comment upon and often give hints (thought not commitments) to the likelihood of development directions. As a user this helps me decide on how I use TD and how likely, or not, it is that my strategy might need to change with Tds addition or modification of features. I think TD strikes a good balance in building in some structure to the program and allowing for enormous range of how people use it as well as the ability to customize what you actually see on screen. To me finding that balance is quite a feat. Edward |
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lite1 |
Posted Jun 08, 2009 in: Official naming in TD: Using "clone" "copy" interchangeably
Score: 0
Posted by Toodledo:
On Toodledo, the words "clone", "copy", and "duplicate" all mean the same thing. It takes one task and makes another one that is identical in every way. Now you have two independent tasks. 1) Glad for the explanation and glad that you take terminology and creating clarity seriously. 2) Unless I am not understanding the behavior of TD - I disagree with your statement "Now you have two independent tasks." In my mind this statement is NOT true if I use your CLONE function on a task that I see in Main View Star tab. The resultant task does not have an independent life by which I mean if I edit it in the Star tab view my edits will also show up in the task wherever else it can be viewed. {I think that I will find this to actually be very useful, and will continue to keep this distinction in my own mind.} In part, my original post was to point out this different result (even though I am still clicking the CLONE function) and to wonder out loud whether having terminology that could accommodate this difference in result might be of value. I trust you folks to make choices for TD that based on your commitment and much greater experience will best serve the greatest number of users. |
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You can use Shift+Tab to move upward from the lowest task/subtask description field to the description field of the item above it. [However Tab typically takes you horizontally rather than down your list of items; yet tabbing thru the Sidebar is a notable exception.]
Unfortunately there does not seem to be anyway to get to the Note memo field without mousing to it. While I am not a fast typist, I strongly prefer keyboard shortcuts for things I do repeatedly and almost everything in TD is of that nature. Edward |
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Saskia.x thanks for good suggestion and clear explanation. Since I am reluctant to add another use that I have for Star, I am experimenting with your idea with the following modification:
I enter a Due Date for task and then Tab to Due Time and type 111 or 222 or 333 or 444 or 555 then enter enter to accept Task. TD will automatically fill my number entry in as 1:11am etc. and such a due time is obvious to me, since I am not a night owl, that it must be some coded message to myself. The 1:11am for me means, this is an absolute deadline with serious consequences if missed e.g. pay taxes. I expect that as I do my weekly review if I am not completing my Due Date by 1:11 and 2:22 tasks close to 99% of the time that there is something very off with my life, but that if I am often postponing ones that are 5:55am and they have priority < 2 then this is perhaps simply being overly optimistic about my getting to less important things in my life. I like the ? that you ask yourself "when would I like to have done this task by, and how essential is it that this task is done by that date?" Again thanks, Edward P.S. To Jay the OP: I'd say I am using Priority to indicate importance and my artificial Due Time as an indicator of urgency. I use Star to either bump up things in the importance sort, but more frequently as a temporary way to manually (not by search) way to select various tasks so that I can quickly see them in the Main View|Star tab This message was edited Jun 06, 2009. |
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lite1 |
Posted Jun 06, 2009 in: Editing Multiple Tasks - Without a Search
Score: 0
Posted by Anders:
It depends which field you are talking about. I am referring to the Task name (or description) field - the one where you type in text for what you are actually going to do for the Task, in contrast to all of the attribute assignments for that Task. I understand that attributes such as Tags (Dates & etc.) can be changed en masse after a Search via Multi Edit. |
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lite1 |
Posted Jun 06, 2009 in: Editing Multiple Tasks - Without a Search
Score: 1
In addition to the benefits of the functionality discussed/requested above for editing attributes of a group of selected items, I often need/want to mass edit the task/subtask description and believe that there is currently no search/replace feature.
E.G. John Doe is no longer my contact at a company and has been replaced by Sue Smith. |
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lite1 |
Posted Jun 06, 2009 in: Official naming in TD: Using "clone" "copy" interchangeably
Score: 0
Anders ... thx for input and your language suggestion. Does it seem helpful that we (users and TD) get some definitions of terms and names for them? It certainly does seem that the created entity can behave in different ways. Edward
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Posted Jun 06, 2009 in: Official naming in TD: Using "clone" "copy" interchangeably
Score: 0
Love the recent feature addition but am bothered by what I believe is sloppy use of language by TD by using the words "clone" and "copy" almost interchangeably. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding things, and if this thread ends up adding confusion rather than the intended clarity - TD please delete entire thread. My apology in advance if I am wrong.
While I'm quite new to TD, it seems that a task (or subtask)can behave in either of these ways: created by COPYING - a copy is a duplicate/snapshot of an already existing task/subtask. Once it is created it lives an independent life. Great for making templates so entry is speeded up. This is the new feature recently added (but TD refers to this as "clone this task" when you hover over the check box). created by CLONING - a clone is a "special duplicate" of an already existing task/subtask. If you are viewing a clone and make edits to it, these edits simultaneously occur and are visible wherever else you might view the clone. Clones do NOT have independent lives. If you Star a task and then view Starred tasks in the Main View, you are viewing a CLONE. For me the key is that the behavior - independent life versus identical life experience - of what is created is a function of where you do the creation. If I am on a task in my Work folder and use the hover over check box, what I create (by COPYING) is a "copy. If I do the same thing for a task that I am viewing in the Starred tab of Main View, it is slightly harder to put in words: 1) When I use the hover over new function, I am creating (by COPYING) a "copy" in the Starred tab. This copy inherits all of the attributes of the source e.g. the Folder assignment such as Work. This copy has an independent life. --- So far there are no differences to what I had done above when I was in my Work folder. 2) However if I start to edit this copy, I am really working on a clone. By this I mean that the changes I am making will also be viewable in the Folder e.g the Work folder Hence there are two functions: COPYING and CLONING and the result is either a copy or a clone - I have tried to keep this distinction clear in my writing above. In the official announcement of the new feature to me, TD does not keep the distinctions as clear as they might at the level of the "function/command" and at the level of the "result". If I am correct this has led to my confusion. Also if I am correct, I ask for TD to adopt and announce some official language that we can use in the forums so we have clarity. =========== Quote from TD from recent thread in News: 1) Task Duplication / Task Templates / Cloning / etc. It is now possible to duplicate/clone a task. This works for regular tasks as well as parent and subtasks. When you clone a task that has subtasks, it will duplicate everything and will give you a perfect copy of the original. This is a great way to make templates for tasks that you need to create frequently. For example, if you have to do the same 15 tasks for each new project that you get, you could create a template task with these 15 subtasks and then make a copy of the parent task each time you start a new project. To clone a task, hover your mouse over the checkbox. After a second, a popup menu will appear with a link to clone the task. ============================= My suggestion would be that the hover over text read "create duplicate" which is generic language and intentionally somewhat vague and handles what I am referring to as a "copy" or a "clone". If the hover over text can be specific to the actual situation that the user is in then more specific text ("create copy" or "create clone") would be preferable. {The current text "Clone This Task" implies that the command should only work on "Tasks" but clearly it also works if you are hovering on a subtask check box.) Sorry to be detailed (perhaps nit picking) yet I have had enough experience to be concerned that this possible inaccurate use of language might come to bite all of us. A different issue related to clarity in the forums is all of the different meanings that both TD and users have for the word "project(s)", but I'll save that for a different thread. Thanks, Edward |
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lite1 |
Posted by Big KC:
I do most of my online work using my mobile tools...mostly my iPod Touch, with my WM phone as a backup. Even when I'm home, I don't use my desktop too much. The kids are always on it. That might be the critical difference. Evernote might not create any advantage over your current process if you do most of your work in the same place. [shudder] Did I mention I hate working with paper notes? Actually, I admire people who have that skill. ... And the technology changes every couple of years, so I have to learn all over again. (Evernote and TD are both very new for me). I honestly see my dependence on high-tech as a character flaw. But a relatively minor one in the grand scheme of things. Big KC thx for taking time to give me more insight into your use of EN. I'm somewhat tethered to my laptop that goes back and forth from home to work, yet is rarely used on batteries. When I'm not at computer, I do like to hike and when possible back pack, so while I understand - sort of - having data in the "cloud" I prefer to actually hike high enough to be in the clouds. So different life styles as you mention probably suggest the use of different approaches/technologies. My only son is 25 and attached to the iPhone and synching to two computers. Learning new technology can be a chore and/or great mind stretch. My 1st laptop was Radio Shack model 100 (which I'll donate to a museum) and 1st emails went at speed of 300 baud, so over the years I've learned that investing in skill building of my brain/mind and balancing that with technology is my best strategy. Enjoy this forum as many including you seem to have a good grip on using what is between their ears. Agree that the thread should be split - sorry to have pulled it so far off, yet appreciate good picture of your uses of EN. And I'll probably play with it as much as a tool as for my explorations into western cultural trends. Edward edit - P.S. In my era, post its were a high tech revolution in the paper and pencil world. I still find many uses for them. I can imagine you shuddering! This message was edited Jun 04, 2009. |
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lite1 |
Oregon, U.S.A.
Work for small mail order co. with significant online store; I do research, some web development & testing, write internal PDF training manuals, and etc. Pro user - joined May 9, 2009; do NOT use TD on mobile device; use FF addon for TD; connect to web at work and home during all waking hours. New to GTD; probably will commit to 80% of principles 100% of time. RTM migrant which I had tried for 2 weeks; great to be here - great app, wonderful community. Abandoned Gcal as synch is too infrequent. 3 upgrades to TD that would most help me: 1) Internal calendar (or some other visual representation) that would give me a picture of my tasks. 2) Fewer keystrokes for repetitive/frequent uses e.g. account setting so you could opt out of having to confirm that you want to delete task. More keyboard control so you don't need to switch to mousing. 3) Expanded functionality for multi-task entry so would be quicker to do a mind-dump and get tasks/subtasks to proper place. Thx Vin for starting this, I've been curious myself. Edward This message was edited Jun 03, 2009. |
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Posted by Toodledo:
We've been prioritizing functionality over beauty, ... Think you have the right priorities for the app. I also like the users here if they also value those priorities. If too many people come to TD because of "sex appeal" this might create unintended consequences for the program. Want TD to grow and be very successful with 80% of that coming from being an even better/ more functional tool and 20% from aesthetics while using it. Edward |
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Posted Jun 03, 2009 in: Two big updates and 6 little ones
Score: 0
Thanks so much this is great improvement.
SUGGESTION: Change order of options when hovering over check box to ... Delete task Copy task Click check box to mark task as done To me this would save time and mouse movement. Still would love an account setting whereby one could opt-out of needing to confirm that you truly want to delete something; or if my mouse pointer automatically was positioned over the "OK" on the pop-up confirmation so that I could just double-click to delete (this mouse behavior happens in most of my other programs but not TD). Sorry to be niggling, and I am truly grateful for the wonderful improvement to TD - the latter is the main point to make. Probably should not mix praise with my suggestions!! SUGGESTION: Consider referring to things as COPY not as CLONE. 20 years ago I used an outlining program that had both COPY, meaning an independent duplicate that once created could then start to change; a CLONE was a copy that could appear in a different part of the outline AND wherever the CLONE was any changes were instantly duplicated. One could have as many clones of the same thing as you wanted. ======= I think that for me some of the unproductive posts in some threads are due to writers having different meanings for the word "project" or "project management"; some are using it in the sense that David Allen proposes and hence in TD any Parent Task that has a subtask is a project --- but others are using "project" to mean something in addition to that. I wish forum could have agreement on how terms are used as this would add clarity to what I find to be a wonderfully supportive and helpful group of people. Edward FINAL SUGGESTION TD to toot its own horn ... In sidebar indicate "new News" or just "News 6.02.2009" so more people might check News and become aware of updates/improvements. While I might stumble upon some of them, the subtle changes or options might be missed by many. Keep up your excellent work and responsiveness to the community - you folks rock. This message was edited Jun 03, 2009. |
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Anders and Big KC thax for sharing/responding but perhaps you can elaborate or get more concrete as I am still missing the power of EN. I do not use TD in a mobile arena; I do have a Blackberry but rarely use it to take photos. I do a great deal of research online, primarily text oriented stuff, although a diagram or photo/graphic/image might also be part of it. Typically I have two web browser windows open (one for work related things for when a customer might call on the phone; the other for my web research) both with several tabs open with TD in one of those tabs. My approach might be:
1) Article I wish to read later - type N to create a task Read ... cut/paste the url into note with some sense of why I think the article/info might be of value and to what. Done, onto next thing. 2) Read reviews to make a decision about purchase of new equipment: Depending on the importance and monetary expense I'd typically have a word doc open into which I'd cut and paste web items including screen captures. Read things in word doc so that I can both use highlighter and make my own annotations. Create task in TD to read/complete analysis and write report with recommendation to boss. 3) If my web based research is more extensive/elaborate and depending on its purpose and audience, my initial word doc might then become a PDF that I can work with in Acrobat Pro. WIth it not only can I highlight in different colors, but I can place collapsible notes as kind of a layer so that I can meta-comment on some aspect of the content. I haven't played much with EN, but not sure I could really do those things. 4) In learning TD, I cut/paste into word doc entire forum threads or portions thereof that I find to be useful tips of how people are using things. Again I don't see where EN would be an advantage. Big KC writes about capturing audio notes, and I guess this might be useful to me when I am driving. But bottom line is that either I am missing the power of EN, OR perhaps since I am not wanting/needing to be productive in a mobile situation that EN is not necessarily a tool of value for me. I always have 3 x 5 cards with me (been carrying them for a couple of decades - not the same ones) and still find that writing something rather than typing because of the different kinesthetic input triggers different parts of my thinking. The developer of EN refers to it as "your external brain" or something like that. My judgment, by it seems that some of the video clips on EN of people using it to remind them of where they parked seem slightly absurd to me - seems like using the memory that one has built in as a human OR some low tech solution like jotting it on a parking slip or 3x5 might work as well. So any elaboration is welcome and perhaps a light will go off for me, or I'll realize it is not a particularly useful tool for me. I hope that on EN I am just dense, as I love finding new tools that are worthwhile and the helpful people on this forum seem to have some good arrows in their quivers. Thx, Edward |
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I'd also be interested in how you are using Evernote. It seems that many here are using Evernote and are looking forward to better integration with TD. I checked out EN last night but have yet to get how it might be of real value to me. Some hints from those who are using it would be very welcome.
Thanks, Edward |
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Posted Jun 02, 2009 in: Do you get payoff from having virtually all open loops in TD?
Score: 0
I'm new to GTD and only been using TD for < month. Still have not done the complete brain dump of all my loose ends into TD; putting some of them in TD seems slightly "insane" however they "qualify" as they'd take more than 2 to 5 minutes to complete. For those who have nearly all their open loops in TD, do you really experience "mind like water"?
Personally I get that from my daily meditation and as I carry that quality into my daily life I can maintain it. TD and GTD might be good principles and tools, yet I have some doubts and will adapt to my own needs/preferences. When I first read GTD I became hyper aware for at least a week of all the open loops in my life (that previously had not really caused much stress or concern). I have started to add these (and review my lists) AND more importantly have tamed the voice that says "Oh, you should put that in TD and get it off your mind" so that I can pause and immediately know if there is really some pay off in doing so right now, or whether it can wait for doing a larger brain dump later in the day or even tomorrow. I think I understand the idea of having a trusted system, but it seems that the trusted system can include not tracking all things in TD (or on paper)as long as you have a clear set of inner guidelines for what goes in, and what uses the fairly tried and true memory approaches I have used all my life. So would appreciate any insights and exp. sharing of those who have worked with the GTD principles longer than I have. I guess you might say that I am keeping my eye on the goal, and noticing when what seems like micro-managing my life adds stress rather than adds to an enriched life. Edward P.S. Perhaps ironically a goal that I have is to live my life without any need for GTD or TD; beauty, simplicity, power, focus, moment-to-moment action aligned with purpose, meaningfulness, poise ... |
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Posted by Toodledo:
... but PDF isn't interactive whereas our help section allows you to search and crosslink to other help topics... While I agree with your conclusion that you will keep your help as is, PDFs are certainly easily searched via Find; and if the creator uses Acrobat Pro (or similar authoring prog) it is easy to: create bookmarks - to help with organization and navigation for reader make links - to other pages within PDF; to URLs; to pages within other PDFs. As author you can also put sticky type notes (that can be collapsed or opened) with different colors to comment on an area of text. As author (and as reader if you are using Pro) you can use highlighter in different colors - well to highlight. PDFs have enormous advantages and I create them frequently for the internal training manuals I do for our small company. I want all of you to enhance TD, and am a bit amused at the lack of knowledge about PDFs, but I "pay you" to be experts in TD. Coach.mac A suggestion for learning TD: Create a word doc dedicated to TD. Cut and paste parts of official help topics to it. Cut and paste forum posts or parts of them that have good suggestions for using TD to the word doc. In this way you are creating your own personalized user manual. I also keep in such a doc notes on when I started using a piece of software; my login and pw; my own hot keys and ways of using the software; etc. Edward |
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Molaris ... I'm quite new, yet committed to TD - tried other progs, and this one has power, flexibility, and is evolving quickly, and has great forum people. Re-reading GTD but only semi-committed to its approach; yet your ? is not totally exclusive to GTD. A few thoughts, suggestions, and perhaps if they think it relevant The Griff and Anders who have much greater familiarity with TD might comment.
1) Don't really know enough to make a clear suggestion. My own inclination would be to project my own tentative system onto your situation and like The Griff suggest that Parent tasks be the Project with Subtasks being the what's needed to accomplish it and Status (Next Action) as a parameter to always(if you are committed to GTD)fill in. How many of your Projects are recurring? are ongoing for more than a month, and of the latter how likely and how often would you be adding additional subtasks to it? Will your staff be using TD as well? How will you get assignments to them? What do they need to see - what might you want to keep private? I expect that TD has the power to work for you, however a good structure for you may take time to evolve. FWIW, I also am typing my parent tasks starting with a "+" sign and then in all CAPS. The + always makes it clear to me that there is at least one subtask and the caps help me visually if a particular screen presentation shows subtasks unnested from Parent. 2) Before committing to an approach I'd mock-up perhaps 5 or 6 Projects and start to try it out. There is probably no one best approach for you just a set of trade offs. And what might seem good at first might not scale as well to your 150 projects e.g. I can't imagine dealing with 150 folders both creating them, assigning them, finding what I want to view etc. 3) I think I understand the core value of the GTD Next Action list; I am currently handling that by using TD Status and am surprised that the suggestions above do NOT mention Status as part of their suggestion to you. Perhaps it is too obvious, but want to make sure that you are aware of that parameter that is built in. 4) How often do you think you are going to use Search feature in TD? or Multi task entry feature? My own inclination as I am setting up my system is to include a fair amount in the task name e.g. email printer instructions for X51 VW verify hyperlinks 4 includes NW rather than use tags e.g._Valley Web or _New Website which obviously could also be abbreviated by VW or NW (as as I have done in the task name. Disadvantages are: I loose some power in Searching; if subtask name is too long I don't see the data until I hover over it. Advantages: for me quicker to enter things in multi task when doing a brain dump. 5) If you do make Folder for each Project figure out before committing to that, how you'll quickly get to the Folder you want. In TD you can use the number keys 1-9 to move through the first set of tabs on screen. I find that I use that a lot; and personally feel more relaxed about my life having only 11 folders (All Task Zapp Biz EA JA Send Rcv Maybe Ref Goals No Folder). I opted for > simplicity as I feel that gives me more power than the alternative I had tried (Folder for each significant proj - meaning has > 5 subtasks). Latter seemed to offer more organization but for me quickly got too complicated to actually use quickly and hence lost its power/usefulness. Look forward to reading how your system is evolving as all of us are looking to cut each other's learning curves. Edward |