ForumsQuestionsPros/Cons of Alternatives to Toodledo.
Pros/Cons of Alternatives to Toodledo.
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beertell |
Hey folks,
Long time Toodledo user (over 10 years) here. Never really participated in the community much. Toodledo has done what I needed, and I was happy. I am sad to see that a thread about alternative apps is one of the most active on here. Looking at the way the new owners are handling things I am not surprised. We still have no workable mobile solution (imo), most everything is on hold and very few updates?!?! I only see excuses about old code, and they up the price for what? Why not hire some more people with that extra money and get it done? They have until April when my billing is up and then I will be jumping ship. Toodledo runs my life and I am scared to death to lose it, but I refuse to be caught with my pants down as a result of anyone else’s tomfoolery. I have started to look for an alternative. I thought I would share my journey with you all as I hope it may help someone. Please understand the following is based on my opinions and observations. I am human and have errored in the past and will continue to do so as long as I am breathing. Please take the following with a grain of salt and do your own research! Just so you know where my reviews are coming from… I am a Tier2 Support Specialist for my company with a busy personal life. I work in an office half the time. The other half I am a mobile worker. Mobility, customization and integration are important for my TM (Task Manager). I use Windows and IOS for work and Mac, Linux and IOS for personal time. I need a TM that works in all my platforms as well as a solid web interface. There have been a lot of improvements in the competition since I last looked. I looked through a few review sites and picked around 15 candidates based on reviews. I then narrowed it down to five based on the following: *US or Ally based company *Must have web or desktop and mobile apps *Must be able to sync across platforms *Current Development *Stability I then narrowed it down further to five candidates, came up with a list of the most important features and researched each one. I captured a matrix to a png file and posted it on imgur so you can see the results of my research so far. The candidates are: *Todoist *Remember the Milk *Amazing Marvin *Any.do *OmniFocus Here is a link. https://i.imgur.com/0ftx4K8.png I am now working on trials for the top two pics shown in green at the top of the matrix. The reasons I did not pick the other three: RTM – not GTD in my opinion. There are work-arounds, but it is not workable for me. Any.do – glorified grocery list. No advanced searches or bulk editing. Lame! Omni – recently developed web interface is not fully functional and very lacking. They are too far entrenched into the Apple ecosystem for me. The reasons I picked Amazing Marvin: It is configurable like crazy and the devs are updating like mad. It is better than Toodledo in many ways including a usable if not a little clunky moble app (mobile apps are getting an update within 3 months). It has features like task dependencies, slick calendar integration (with sync to icloud, gmail, and soon Outlook), time blocking, etc. etc. etc… In a year it will do twice that Toodledo can do. The devs actually communicate and have many projects in the running. What worries me is that it is relatively new compared to the others, mobile needs work, price is high, and the interfaces are not there yet, although most are coming soon. It is a bit of a gamble. The reasons I picked todoist: One of the most established of the others. Large user base and a very solid product. They have almost everything I want. The mobile app is a thing of beauty. If you have seen it before, they just got a big update. It checks off almost every want that I have. Large active community. Best price. Good development. This is a solid choice, but not as many bells and whistles. There is no direct replacement for Toodledo. I will likely have to make some major adjustments, but the added features will likely cancel out the pain in the long term. I will report back once I have made a choice with a summary. Good luck, and no matter what you think, back up your DB at the very least. I have a feeling bad news will be forthcoming. I hope they prove me wrong. |
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Purveyor |
Posted by beertell:
RTM – not GTD in my opinion. There are work-arounds, but it is not workable for me. Just curious: Which features are missing in RTM that disqualify it as a tool for using the GTD methodology, especially in comparison with Toodledo?Thanks. |
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Ummagumma |
Totally YMMV, but the more bells, whistles, and interdependencies a task manager has, the more time is an average user likely to spend managing task attributes rather than managing tasks.
And GTD was a great system in the era of physical papers and hanging folders, that was initially designed as a workaround for the not-yet-existing due date reminder and quick task sorting functionality. In my honest opinion, the "pure" GTD is grossly overdone in the modern era, and the fact that it's still alive and actively promoted is a fantastic marketing achievement by Dave Allen and his company. Now, hiding and waiting for all the flack ;) This message was edited Jan 30, 2020. |
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beertell |
@Ummagumma and @Purveyor
Your posts got me thinking so I did some more research. I would like to retract my statement that RTM is not truly GTD. It is not right out of the box, but as it turns out there are some nice tutorials that you can make it quite nicely compliant with GTD. I must also admit that my interpenetration of GTD is not a purist one in any sense, but what I have learned from it and a few other organizational methods. My true workflow is more of a hybrid of GTD and these other methods. I should really stop using the term GTD all together. Specifically, I use the concepts of gathering sources, reviews, and distraction control as well as some of the terms. I have noticed that although the terms change from TM to TM, the concepts are much the same. In other words, labels can be contexts, projects can be folders, etc. RTM was one of the first products out of the five that I looked at and so my concepts were not as fluid as they are now. Thank you for helping me come to these conclusions. Sorry, I am all out of flack. I used it up years ago. :) |
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beertell |
Posted by Bevier:
No one is talking about MyLifeOrganized? It seems that it can do everything Toodledo can do and more with no compromises. That is not one of the TMs that I initially looked at. I did some looking and unfortunately it would not fit my initial metrics. A cursory look into the domain shows that it is registered through an intermediary. I cannot find anything about where their servers are hosted either. Again this is merely looking on the surface. I require that the company is based in the US or an Ally. This is not because of a nationalist agenda, but rather, if I know the company is based somewhere where the laws are somewhat protective of my data I feel better. Additionally, the price point is a little high. If you want Pro level subscription, then it would be over 100 for a windows app, ios app, and cloud sync. I don't see a web app so I would not be able to use it on my Mac or Linux. The interface looks nice. Perhaps it would fit others needs though. Thank you for the suggestion. |
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dmos01 |
Been lurking here for a while, watching the collapse of Toodledo. I've been a member since 2015, so almost no time at all considering the sale happened in mid-2018.
I've now moved to Amazing Marvin. The main view / master list / backburner system allows me to seperate out tasks I plan to do, tasks I could do (but haven't planned when) and tasks I can't do yet. It's expensive, but other systems that include task dependency seem even more expensive. (It's more project management system than todo system at that point, so adjust pricing expectations.) Also, the fit-and-finish has had a lot of work put into it — from keyboard shortcuts and customisable widths; even color pallette in color pickers (rainbow, pale rainbow, fall, crayon) and ... rich-text in notes! And it's being iterated on very quickly. The number of strategies is much, much larger than some images pointed to earlier in this thread and other applicable TD threads. I guess Ummagumma is right about time managing task attributes. On the other hand, it starts out very simply, so you opted-in to all those attributes. Back on the first hand, this redirects time to playing with strategies. That is the cost for Amazing Marvin being able to handle any workflow you can think of. (Have you heard of Eisenhower?) He was right about YMMV. For me, being able to seperate tasks into the three sections above has removed a lot of stress looking at my list. Finally, very responsive to questions and feedback. They will even help you set up a workflow if you're struggling with something. Oh, and new mobile apps due next month. This message was edited Jan 30, 2020. |
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Ummagumma |
IMHO, MLO was created by a Russian developer. It's a fairly old and well established system. However, it has a very specific way of doing things which locks you into a specific tool and if at any point you can no longer use it, you are back to all the pain of abruptly changing your entire task management system.
The best system - for me at least - is the one where every essential feature is so simple that I can use it on any platform or service. |
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itp |
Posted by beertell:
The reasons I picked todoist: One of the most established of the others. Large user base and a very solid product. They have almost everything I want. The mobile app is a thing of beauty. If you have seen it before, they just got a big update. It checks off almost every want that I have. Large active community. Best price. Good development. This is a solid choice, but not as many bells and whistles. There’s also an independent, open source kanban-board for Todoist. Kanban is a must-have for me: I really want something visual like a kanban-board to get me going. I am now syncing “active” and “next action” toodledo-tasks for one particular context to Trello for that purpose (using Integromat.com, which is very impressive in terms of available connectors and UI/UX). But having to deal with 2 todo-apps (and an integration-tool) is simply too much. OTOH: the kanban-board for Todoist could be duplicated with Toodledo-integration. Seems like a nice rainy afternoon-project https://kanban.ist/ pascal |
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beertell |
Hey folks,
So as promised I will regale my adventure in finding a replacement for Toodledo. If you will recall I had narrowed my search to Amazing Marvin and Todoist (hereafter referred to as AM and TD for brevity's sake). I have been using both under free trials. I used to think that nothing could replace Toodledo. Now I think I was just being stubborn. I did use it for over 10 years, and it grew on me. I realize with a little tweaking to my extremely dated workflow, that I am way more efficient with how I handle things. Plus, my workflow can fit into most of the popular TMs. Is there an exact replacement for Toodledo? Simply put, no. In many ways the the competition is better and improving. Development has become stagnant on this side of the fence. Toodledo has been slowly losing ground over the years. With all of that being said, be prepared because you will have to adjust your workflow to use other TMs. As painful as it has been for me, I am now better off. So I ended up choosing TD, but it was no easy decision. I changed my mind several times during the course of my trials. TD won for the following reasons. • It is a little more stable. Syncing between platforms is flawless and happens quickly. I can create a task on the web console and by the time I look down at my phone it is already there and vice versa. I noticed a few minor sync issues with AM. Nothing show stopping, just annoying. • The mobile app is very slick and easy to work with. I had no idea how nice it could be. I can enter tasks directly into the app or through Siri with ease. Mobile access is very important to me. AM's app is not quite there yet. I don't doubt the coming update will be a vast improvement, but TDs mobile app was a big selling point for me because mobility is extremely important for my work. • Tasks can be entered with natural language to schedule, add to project, and so on. Categorizing and tagging items can be done with simple syntax. i.e. "Do some work for boss every mon !!1 #work @VIP" will add the named task to reoccur every Monday with high priority in my work project and label it VIP. Once you get used to the syntax it is a snap to add tons of tasks in a short amount of time. Syntax is the same for the web app, mobile app and email entry. • 4 levels of subtasks. • Advanced filter every bit as good as TD. You can mark some filters as favorites which puts them right under you Today view. • Shift or Ctrl click to select multiple tasks to batch edit. I don't have to click a switch then click option then save. Just select tasks, click option(s) to change and done. • TD automatically backs up on a regular bases. It gives you a list of links so you can download from a certain date. Not sure how far the list goes back yet, but I periodically download the and archive the backups. • TD has a better price. • TD has a large list of integrations. Both apps are amazing. I recommend doing a trial of each to see for yourself. No payment information was even required for either trial so there should be no worries of forgetting and being charged. I will be keeping my eye on development of AM and may switch some day in the future if it suits me. Some notable things about AM that really stood out for me. • AM has a lot of really cool features called strategies that TD does not have. They can be turned on and off to create a completely custom experience. Many strategies have instructional videos built right into the menu. • The calendar integration in AM is something I have sorely wanted in TD. I believe it is only Gmail and iCloud at this point, but Outlook is also coming soon. You can view all your events and tasks on month, week and day calendars next to your events, meetings and etc. Calendar integration is on the road map for TD. • Developers that really care about their product. I am impressed by the level of involvement and updates that AM receives. They have an active change log with many good things coming in the future. I could have wrote an entire reference manual about this. Believe me, I narrowed it down a lot. I think it is enough for you to get a taste of what may be possible whether you are fed up and ready to migrate TMs now or just waiting for the inevitable collapse before you decide to make the move. Either way good luck! TLDR; I chose Todoist This message was edited Feb 09, 2020. |
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aleding |
EDIT: I found your previous posts where you discuss RTM...please disregard my question in the OP...
@beertell: Great write-up - many thanks. I too opted out of ToodleDo and migrated to Todoist about a year ago. While I found TD to be very functional during this time, I did also keep an eye on RTM. Did you take a look at them during your quest? This message was edited Feb 09, 2020. |
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byerun |
Thanks beertell for detailed comparison between Todoist and Amazing Marvin. I eliminated Todoist because it doesn't have support for start date (I'm surprised how many TMs are missing such a basic feature.) I ended up going with AM and found your write up on it pretty accurate.
AM has support for "label groups" which allows you define custom fields for a task with an icon for the field included in the task edit bar. I used this when converting my Toodledo status and context fields over. One drawback to AM is it's support for priorities is an optional strategy which means you can have tasks without a priority defined, unlike Toodledo which lets you define a default priority if you don't specify one. This makes sorting and filtering by priority cumbersome. I do miss the table view Toodledo provides making it easier to sort and group by task fields and quickly see how tasks vary over these fields. The list view used by AM makes it harder for me to see task field values in the list at a glance. (Table view is in AM's long term roadmap.) I also miss Toodledo's ability to sort using the Importance formula. I'm not sure of any other tool that does something like that. The drawbacks of AM compared to Toodledo are more than made up though by the rich feature set provided by AM. I've been using it for about 3 months know and I'm still exploring what all it's capable of doing. Note that currently you can get a years subscription to AM for free at https://appsumo.com/amazing-marvin/. |
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aleding |
@byerun: +1 for the start date...I too am at a loss for why so many omit what I find to be a required field. As you probably already now, RTM does have this and while the finish is not quite at the same level as something like Todoist, I must say that functionality wise, RTM is pretty solid...
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Lenny_Wass |
Appigo Todo also has start dares
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aleding |
I decided to check out Amazing Marvin and it is indeed a pretty strong app and as others have said previously, TONS of customizations. I took advantage of the 1y free deal (THANK YOU @byerun) but do have one key question --- infosec. Does anyone have any details re: their infosec systems and processes? I did read their privacy policy but it is pretty anemic so I sent AM an email but nothing back yet....
This message was edited Feb 10, 2020. |
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beertell |
@aleding, You are most welcome. I have had a free account with RTM for a few years and found it met most of my needs. I ended up liking the interface for Todoist more which is why I was leaning more toward it. RTM is a solid choice though.
@byerun, I used to utilize start dates, but it is something I gave up when I decided to trim the old workflow down a bit. I decided for me, I really only care when the task needs to be done by. I don't need to track my time for work so I don't need to know when it started. I also miss the old grid view. I have replaced that functionality with lots of custom filters which does the trick. Its not the same, but it works. At least TD and AM have unlimited filters. I wish I would have known about the free year on AM! That may have swayed me. I am pretty committed to Todoist though and quite happy with it. Although I will be watching AM developments closely. I may stop by in a few weeks, but please don't take it personal if I don't answer anyone back right away. I got tasks to do! :) |
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aleding |
I have learned a little about Amazing Marvin's security model and processes and because many of us tend to be security conscious, I thought I would share here...
First, I think it's good to understand that while user data is encrypted during transit (TLS) and at rest (LUKS1 + AES-256), the AM staff does have the ability to log into user accounts and access the unencrypted data. Accessing user accounts is very rare and only done for narrowly defined situations. Also, accounts are not accessed without first obtaining user authorization to do so. If permission is not given, then the account is not accessed. The number of people with the ability to access user accounts is very small --- essentially just the company owners. However, this is subject to change as dictated by the needs of the company. User passwords are stored only as hashes and not in plaintext so how they actually access user accounts is not completely clear. Because the user data is accessible when logged in, then AM must have access and\or control of the encryption\decryption keys. The platform is hosted on both AWS (app services) and IBM Cloudant (DBaaS) with the latter managing all encryption keys. DISCLAIMER: None of the above should be taken as any kind of opinion or that any vulnerability\weakness exists. I provide the above information solely for user edification. This message was edited Feb 12, 2020. |
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doctorchanel |
I am a fan of the folks over at Asian Efficiency, so with Toodledo crashing down around me, I was thrilled to discover that they had recently reviewed pros/cons of various GTD-based apps.
Enjoy! http://www.asianefficiency.com/technology/best-gtd-apps/ |
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itp |
Posted by doctorchanel:
I am a fan of the folks over at Asian Efficiency, so with Toodledo crashing down around me, I was thrilled to discover that they had recently reviewed pros/cons of various GTD-based apps. Enjoy! http://www.asianefficiency.com/technology/best-gtd-apps/ Someone in the discussion below the article mentions https://www.nirvanahq.com/ It looks really nice. And at $30/yr or $50/forever... I’m evaluating Todoist right now (including the free https://kanban.ist/ ). What I did notice right away is that it lacks the grid-like view from Toodledo that allows you to see a lot of tasks in once glance. Nirvana has that view too. |
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itp |
Posted by itp:
Someone in the discussion below the article mentions https://www.nirvanahq.com/ It looks really nice. And at $30/yr or $50/forever... FYI: There seem to be some concerns (in this forum and elsewhere) with Nirvana’s frequency of updates (sounds slightly familiar), but one user on Reddit claims he/she sees regular updates occurring with the Mac-app. |
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