ForumsNewsToodledo Update August 2019


Toodledo Update August 2019
Author Message
c5000nc

Posted: Sep 09, 2019
Score: 7 Reference
I for one appreciate that Anant didn't quit like everyone else. So thank you for that Anant! You obviously have some good qualities others don't.

Having said that, there are several items that could help keep us as clients and feel good about telling others about ToodleDo:

1. We need you to update us regularly 100% of the time without fail, a fundamental of any business. It doesn't matter the format and to a lesser degree, the frequency. For example, if you say you will update us monthly on the Blog starting in October like we had until May, then give us whatever you have on the first day of each month, starting on October 1, without fail. Failing to do what you publicly said you would do inevitably makes us think you are failing in many other ways too. Please prove us wrong, because continuing to do that will drive us away in droves.

2. Either formally put Feature Requests on hold until other issues are dealt with (fixing old code, etc.), or at least update us on it.

3. Many of us have critical information for our businesses and personal lives on ToodleDo, and want some assurance it is safe, backed up, etc. Part of that assurance is that ToodleDo has enough financial resources to pay the server bills, etc. We need plenty of notice to back up, move to another platform, etc., if that were to not be the case. We hope it won't be, because most of us want to stay on the ToodleDo platform.

4. Maybe there's a financial backer among ToodleDo users. Maybe a user with deep pockets can help you take it to the next level. ToodleDo is worth saving, given most of us struggle to find an alternative that works for us as well as ToodleDo.

This is pretty simple stuff. We've obviously been patient with the ToodleDo information near-blackout, but the personal and business information we have on ToodleDo is too important to our lives to tolerate that much longer.

Thanks,
A long time user.


This message was edited Sep 09, 2019.
jimk222

Posted: Sep 09, 2019
Score: 1 Reference
Even some of the more established task management apps have a similar demise as ToodleDo. Wunderlist acquired by Microsoft and soon to be overhauled (or in some people's minds taken out to pasture). https://apple.news/AsgIUS8N5RWmbNQmoaz5uwQ.

Then I also recall the days of Penultimate eventually acquired by Evernote and completely trashed by the new owner.

Where's Jake?
Ob-La-Di+ruben

Posted: Sep 09, 2019
Score: 0 Reference
I can definitely understand why Marc feels the way he does.

That said, I also appreciate that Anant is still around and trying to keep this all alive. So, thank you for that, Anant!

C5000n does make some good points and suggestions. Personally, I've observed that Anant does sort of over-commit (but I think it is well-intended and not outright deception) so when he says he's going to get back to us with an update in a few days, I'd don't put much stock in that or really hold it against him when it doesn't happen.

Wish he had more resources to cover more of the many things on his plate right now, but it is what it is.
mjbernstein

Posted: Sep 09, 2019
Score: 0 Reference
I wish everyone the best. In truth I don't wish ill upon anyone but I do feel that I have been misled and I have been fooled into spending money and time based upon empty reassurances. Toodledo was awesome---there was no other tool like it. I tried many others but sadly only paper offers the same flexibility (strangely enough TeuxDeux was my second favorite)--if only it has a search function.

With the security issues (even though likely not real security issues) receiving no attention from admin it is my plan to do from here and to delete my account and leaving 281 paid for days on the table.
Duo

Posted: Sep 11, 2019
Score: 1 Reference
Posted by c5000nc:
[..]
3. Many of us have critical information for our businesses and personal lives on ToodleDo, and want some assurance it is safe, backed up, etc. Part of that assurance is that ToodleDo has enough financial resources to pay the server bills, etc. We need plenty of notice to back up, move to another platform, etc., if that were to not be the case. We hope it won't be, because most of us want to stay on the ToodleDo platform.

[...]


Well if the handling of the product over the last year wasn't enough to ring a warning bell for you, surely the antics over the last couple of months are a klaxon going off right next to your ear.

For a while I only had Tasks that required review every month or longer in Toodledo as well as old Notes, old Lists and old Outlines. Starting in June I took the time to make sure they were all fully exported and to import any data that I require easy access to into other tools. It was very time consuming but it's done.

Even if you don't want to move to another application right now, I strongly recommend making your own daily data backups or perhaps setting up something like IFTTT to write out every item of data and every change to a Google Doc or something similar and then also doing a weekly export from Toodledo.


This message was edited Sep 11, 2019.
c5000nc

Posted: Sep 11, 2019
Score: 1 Reference
I've been backing up the XML and CSV files daily, just in case. I hope I never need them.
jogo

Posted: Sep 11, 2019
Score: 0 Reference
Posted by c5000nc:
I've been backing up the XML and CSV files daily, just in case. I hope I never need them.


Daily backups are a smart move. I really, really do hope Toodledo survives; I want to keep using it. But there's far too much writing on the wall to ignore.

"Hope for the best, plan for the worst."


This message was edited Sep 11, 2019.
Ob-La-Di+ruben

Posted: Sep 11, 2019
Score: 0 Reference
Posted by Duo:

Well if the handling of the product over the last year wasn't enough to ring a warning bell for you, surely the antics over the last couple of months are a klaxon going off right next to your ear.


That's a hilarious turn of phrase. Wish things weren't the way they are. Wish all you old-timers with your huge wealth of knowledge were still happily here doling out your pearls as things were before.

Wishing everyone the best. I'm also saving exported backups very regularly. Hope I won't need them.
KBC1-Gold-Active

Posted: Sep 12, 2019
Score: 0 Reference
@Everyone -- I am a long time Gold user with another 8 months remaining on my Gold Subscription / and bought one of the "lifetime" Plus subscriptions too (knowing that backups can be made from one account and restored to another). Committed to using ToodleDo as long as it continues working.

SUGGESTION -- This forum seems to be working right now and it seems that no one has attempted to censor it -- BUT -- Does someone here want to start an external forum that is easy and free so that we can all connect on the outside without any limitations? How about a private FB or Slack group or something that everyone is comfortable with? Preferably administered by a couple of long-time knowledgeable ToodleDo users with software expertise? (More than one moderator / admin for redundancy). Even better if it's someone who lives in NorCal (close to ToodleDo offices) and someone who knows Jake.

Any volunteers?

============

UNTIL someone proposes / creates a better option, here is a free public Slack group that we can use to get started (and then migrate to something better in the future).

https://join.slack.com/t/td-user-coop/shared_invite/enQtNzQ2NzcwNjc4MzA3LTc3OWNhZmE2Yjk1YjgzMjVkMjU1 NDYwZTIxYjE0OTIzMTVjMGNlYjQ2ODgzMGE1MDU3ZjEzNmFlMzMyZmZjOTU


This message was edited Sep 12, 2019.
KBC1-Gold-Active

Posted: Sep 12, 2019
Score: 0 Reference
After watching many small software companies come and go over the past few decades, I can imagine the possible future outcomes for ToodleDo (some described in previous messages).

Someone above mentioned open source, which has pros and cons. In addition to that, I am wondering about the possibility of the dedicated users here somehow creating a group that (legally) acquires a master copy of TD and finds a hosting service somewhere where it can run into perpetuity with crowdfunding by users? Someone else here will understand the potential better than I do -- but the result would be something of a public broadcasting model where users support the service with donations and the service is managed / maintained by volunteers.

The ability to backup a ToodleDo file and restore it into another account would (should?) make it possible for us to upload our current files to another SaaS server running the ToodleDo master code. TO BE CLEAR -- I am advocating that this be done in a totally legal, ethical above-board way with the knowledge and permission of the current ToodleDo owners, and possibly with the cooperating and assistance of the previous owner (Jake?). Sure, there would be some issues to be worked out, but, without getting into too many details too early, does any of this seem plausible?

-----------------------------------------------------

And, can we move this discussion to an outside, independent forum, where this can be brainstormed in a constructive, positive, productive way?

Polite responses are invited. Thanks from KBC1 in SoCal.


This message was edited Sep 12, 2019.
KBC1-Gold-Active

Posted: Sep 12, 2019
Score: 1 Reference
Outside discussion continued here...

https://join.slack.com/t/td-user-coop/shared_invite/enQtNzQ2NzcwNjc4MzA3LTc3OWNhZmE2Yjk1YjgzMjVkMjU1 NDYwZTIxYjE0OTIzMTVjMGNlYjQ2ODgzMGE1MDU3ZjEzNmFlMzMyZmZjOTU

---------------------

(Only part of the URL may be hyperlinked. Copy and past both/all of the lines above into your browser).


This message was edited Sep 12, 2019.
Hyper

Posted: Sep 14, 2019
Score: 1 Reference
Long time user of Toodledo here. I have tried a dozen applications but there really is no alternative to Toodledo. The customization and the simplicity makes it easy for me to manage literally everything in my life. These are some of the core advantages when compared to Toodledo's competitors and why I hope Toodledo will continue to exist in the future. There is a very loyal customer base here - please listen to us - we want Toodledo to succeed as much as you do. Communication is key to any good relationship and the lack of it is making all us fearful that the end of the road is near, so please keep us in the loop and be honest with us - c5000nc brilliant post! fully agree.

This message was edited Sep 14, 2019.
c5000nc

Posted: Sep 14, 2019
Score: 0 Reference
Posted by Hayden L:
Long time user of Toodledo here. I have tried a dozen applications but there really is no alternative to Toodledo. The customization and the simplicity makes it easy for me to manage literally everything in my life. These are some of the core advantages when compared to Toodledo's competitors and why I hope Toodledo will continue to exist in the future. There is a very loyal customer base here - please listen to us - we want Toodledo to succeed as much as you do. Communication is key to any good relationship and the lack of it is making all us fearful that the end of the road is near, so please keep us in the loop and be honest with us - c5000nc brilliant post! fully agree.


Thanks Hayden. I also emailed Anant directly with similar thoughts.
Ob-La-Di+ruben

Posted: Sep 14, 2019
Score: 0 Reference
Posted by c5000nc:

Thanks Hayden. I also emailed Anant directly with similar thoughts.


Hopefully you heard something back from Anant.
c5000nc

Posted: Sep 14, 2019
Score: 1 Reference
Posted by Ob-La-Di+ruben:
Posted by c5000nc:

Thanks Hayden. I also emailed Anant directly with similar thoughts.


Hopefully you heard something back from Anant.


Nothing yet. Sorry...
pawelkaleta

Posted: Sep 15, 2019
Score: 1 Reference
I must admit I'm not sure why I still vist this forum regularly as I had moved my tasks to RTM long time ago. I think it's probably a mix of habit and curiosity but I'm not sure.

Anyway, like many other users I thought Toodledo is not replacable by any other tool. I was wrong. It turned out it required only some openess to different approach to some elements and that's all.

For almost a year, since the ownership change, many users have been urging new owners to improve communication and even the slightest improvement on that field has never appeared, not speaking about improvement of the service and features so beautifully anounced by new team - hardly nothing was introduced. Oh wait, sorry, indeed, there was a huge change introduced - the pricing.

Hence I sincerely admire optimism of some of you that you will reach with your appeals to anybody from Toodledo team. Last Anant's visit on the forum dated September 4th speaks for itself. Believe what you want, but maybe it's about time to face the truth.


This message was edited Sep 15, 2019.
betsys

Posted: Sep 15, 2019
Score: 0 Reference
I don't know if I'm going to renew this year.

I used to use the outline feature to track packing lists, but it became painfully slow, so I switched to a packing list app

I used to have a way to sync tasks with my work Exchange server, but that is long since gone

I used to use subtasks, but they've never displayed nested on the phone - a feature request that has been ignored for years - so I've had ot stop using them.

The apple watch app was pulled just before I bought my watch, and never reappeared

Tried habits but there are a lot of free habit-tracking apps out there

The scheduler looks interesting but it is only available at $60/yr and I don't know if it's worth $60/yr. It becomes $72/yr billed monthly.

Don't need file storage. Have 2T elsewhere on one site and .

I probably will re-up at the cheaper plan as $36/year isn't a huge investment, but I'm feeling rather gloomy at the moment.
Purveyor

Posted: Sep 16, 2019
Score: 0 Reference
Posted by pawelkaleta:
many users have been urging new owners to improve communication
There's been a lot of urging by some users, about communication and about other ways that the Toodledo owners should be running their business.

Urging has not been not effective. It's obvious that all the talk on the forums is just background noise for the Toodledo team. The owners will keep doing what they're doing as long as there's enough money coming in the door.

There's only one thing that has any chance of changing how they run their business: A substantial drop in income.

Some users are emotionally locked into Toodledo. They can't imagine using any other task manager. They have no choice other than to keep using Toodledo and hoping that the website continues to operate.

Other users have several choices.


This message was edited Sep 17, 2019.
Duo

Posted: Sep 17, 2019
Score: 1 Reference
Posted by KBC1-Gold-Active:
[...]
Someone above mentioned open source, which has pros and cons. In addition to that, I am wondering about the possibility of the dedicated users here somehow creating a group that (legally) acquires a master copy of TD and finds a hosting service somewhere where it can run into perpetuity with crowdfunding by users? Someone else here will understand the potential better than I do -- but the result would be something of a public broadcasting model where users support the service with donations and the service is managed / maintained by volunteers.

The ability to backup a ToodleDo file and restore it into another account would (should?) make it possible for us to upload our current files to another SaaS server running the ToodleDo master code. TO BE CLEAR -- I am advocating that this be done in a totally legal, ethical above-board way with the knowledge and permission of the current ToodleDo owners, and possibly with the cooperating and assistance of the previous owner (Jake?). Sure, there would be some issues to be worked out, but, without getting into too many details too early, does any of this seem plausible?
[...]


@KBC1 it's good that you are trying to find a way forward. However...

I believe that the only way for this to survive is either for them to open source it or for someone to come in who has very deep pockets and a commitment to spend and take losses for some years while trust is rebuilt and a user base that can sustain the product is built.

Even if they open source it it will take quite some time for people with the appropriate skills and an interest to pick up the parts that they can handle or want to handle and for the project to be organised in a way that allows for maintaining and supporting the current system and for the long-term development and support, which would be necessary to secure its future.

The main issue with acquiring the code and just putting it on a server (once setup is complete) is security. Vulnerabilities are discovered all the time and these need to be fixed. Sometimes in the OS, sometimes in the libraries that are being used, sometimes in the code itself, sometimes in other applications like the web server, etc, etc.

Also, as far as I know each part of Toodledo is coded separately, plus there are the old and new versions of each part plus the iOS and Android apps, plus the Beta versions.

There is a lot to do just to maintain the current service from a security standpoint. This is one of the issues I had when the new owners decided to keep Notes, Outlines, Lists and Habits open but not develop them.

Then there is the actual running of the systems and the maintenance of the underlying systems including the servers, web servers, MongoDB and PostgreSQL databases (as far as I know). Could I secure and run it? Yes. Would I secure and run it? No!

Either way the future doesn't look too bright.

Even if people were still willing to pay for the product at the current or even at the pre-buyout price, the new owners have inflicted a great deal of damage to the Toodledo brand and they continue to inflict damage on it to this day. As has been pointed out here recently, good communication is really all they have left to offer and they are failing at that too.


This message was edited Sep 17, 2019.
dotparker

Posted: Sep 18, 2019
Score: 0 Reference
@Duo I didn't know that they had stopped developing Notes, Outlines, Lists and Habits. Good to know. When the takeover happened, I had privately messaged with the new owner about security (namely, imploring him to implement encryption for 'data at rest'). But, he indicated that was NOT a priority. One can only wonder if they are keeping all the open-source libraries updated, and of course the server software (don't know what it runs on, but PHP has had some really big vulnerabilities lately). After my conversations last Fall, I went through all my Toodledo entries and removed personally identifiable info (which makes it more cryptic for both potential hackers, and unfortunately for myself!). I can't imagine that they currently have much, if any, security focus at this point. So, we are using at our own risk. That said, I love the Toodledo interface so much, I'm willing to take the risk (for now).
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