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Future Plans
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KBC1-Gold-Expired-May2020 |
Posted: Jul 08, 2018
Score: 11
Reference
Hey, Sam and company, congrats. You are now the stewards and caretakers of a great business tool and an historic piece of SaaS technology and productivity software history.
Those of us who never say anything or complain are happy with the solution the way it is now and don't want a lot of changes. New owners and ambitious programmers commonly want to make a lot of changes to show how smart they are and justify their existence. The software and high tech businesses are full of examples of how new ownership screwed up a great mature solution by injecting new values and goals -- wanting more customers, higher profits, industry awards, fame, or whatever personal or financial reason. In the end, they lose their old loyal customers, fail to find enough new users to support their new, higher cost structures, and drive a great solution into bankruptcy. Maybe you would be willing to consider the following: Perhaps you can "freeze" the solution where it is right now. Don't fix something that ain't broke. Rebrand it as ToodleDo Classic, ToodleDo Premier, or whatever name you like that drives a stake in the ground and says "this is what we have today, everyone loves it, and we're not going to ruin it for people who depend on it to manage their lives and businesses." As standards and regulations change (like GDPR), security is updated, and communications protocols evolve, go ahead and make the small technical updates that are required >> BUT, don't do more than is really necessary. Resist the temptation to make creative little tweaks because one of your developers had a great idea or a small group of users asked for something that amounted to a custom request to fit their personal styles. Maintain the platform somewhere where you can deliver the proper balance of speed, performance, security, cost, and regulatory compliance. Those of us who love the current platform can live in this environment forever in eternal happiness. Then, in parallel to that, make a copy of the current codebase that your ambitious programmers and creative users can play with, add to, iterate, change, modify, morph, adjust, advance, revise, refine, and enhance into whatever they want. Give this a name like ToodleDo Labs, ToodleDo Advanced, or whatever name you like that says, "here is a place for people who want to imagine, innovate, change, and evolve." Allow all of these creative innovators to have fun and make changes to their hearts' content, while the loyal oldtimers keep doing what we have been doing back in the stable and classic ToodleDo environment. If I am correct, the EXPORT functions of ToodleDo will allow users to download their xml data from ToodleDo Classic and upload it into the Newer Platform as often as they like. Meaning that, if they make changes and screw something up, they can erase whatever they have done and reset their system back to the way it was before they made the changes. Am I right? What I am suggesting above should satisfy everyone >> the loyal paid users who don't want to change anything / PLUS the new users who want something new and different and are willing to help pay the development costs in some way. One would also have to guess that you want to pay Jake something for his past work, and you need to increase revenues. So, I personally would not object to you eliminating the free subscriptions to maintain a revenue stream to keep the Classic platform running smoothly. The cost of the Gold subscription is well worth the price, so maybe you will want that to become the table stakes for everyone who wants to stay with the Classic platform? That should at least cover your costs while you ideate, build, and promote your new products. If the free subscriptions have to go away, that would be a small price to pay that any serious user will be willing to accept. If you want to do a free version for marketing reasons, I understand. Whatever you decide... good luck. You're in for a fascinating ride! This message was edited Jul 08, 2018. |
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toothdds |
Congratulations on the planned transition.
Jake your work has been much appreciated. Welcome Sam, Ramon and Anant. I look forward to the transition hopefully not being as cut throat business dreadful as implied in some previous posts. I have created the "Toodledue" app which piggybacks onto Toodledo via your API that creates what I deem to be an improved lense with which to utilize toodledo. My hopes are that you keep the API's functional as they currently are. There are many Toodledo users that access toodledo via apps that depend on the API's. Please keep the API's functional as a priority during future changes and upgrades. Thank you, and best regards! Cliff in NY [email protected] |
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RicardoSwe |
Posted by KurtMainWorkSpace:
...Those of us who never say anything or complain are happy with the solution the way it is now and don't want a lot of changes. New owners and ambitious programmers commonly want to make a lot of changes to show how smart they are and justify their existence. The software and high tech businesses are full of examples of how new ownership screwed up a great mature solution by injecting new values and goals -- wanting more customers, higher profits, industry awards, fame, or whatever personal or financial reason. In the end, they lose their old loyal customers, fail to find enough new users to support their new, higher cost structures, and drive a great solution into bankruptcy. Maybe you would be willing to consider the following: Perhaps you can "freeze" the solution where it is right now. Don't fix something that ain't broke. Rebrand it as ToodleDo Classic, ToodleDo Premier, ToodleDo Opus1, or whatever name you like that drives a stake in the ground and says "this is what we have today, everyone loves it, and we're not going to ruin it for people who depend on it to manage their lives and businesses."... ...Then, in parallel to that, make a copy of the current codebase that your ambitious programmers and creative users can play with, add to, iterate, change, modify, morph, adjust, advance, revise, refine, and enhance into whatever they want. Give this a name like ToodleDo Labs, ToodleDo Advanced, ToodleDo Opus2, or whatever name you like... ...I personally would not object to you eliminating the free subscriptions to maintain a revenue stream to keep the Classic platform running smoothly. The cost of the Gold subscription is well worth the price, so maybe you will want that to become the table stakes for everyone who wants to stay with the Classic platform? --- Whatever you decide... good luck. You're in for a fascinating ride! KurtMainWorkSpace - Well said; thank you. You have some very good ideas. A couple comments - I am a paid subscriber of Toodledo, but it was years of the free product that led me to finally climb on board and pay. I think the free version of a product like Toodledo is necessary to attract new users. Most people will not immediately pay money for an untried product. I really like the idea of making two branches for Toodledo going forward -- one as "Toodledo Classic" and another as "Toodledo Premier", concentrating on keeping classic as close to the current Toodledo as possible and putting creative changes into the premier product. If premier proves successful over a long period of time, the classic users will migrate. Thanks for your ideas Kurt. Ricardo |
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RicardoSwe |
Naturally I am quite worried about this transition. My concerns are based on similar situations with other products. I know we cannot stop the clock. Time marches on. But some anticipation and careful planning can help avoid easily foreseeable problems.
Here are a couple recent examples of products that have gone through somewhat similar changes: WeatherUnderground.com This is a unique weather service extensively developed by small dedicated team of programmers. The product is unique in drawing on an extensive network of private weather stations (amateurs) and integrating the data to produce data rich information in a well designed format that is simply not available *anywhere* else. A few years ago IBM made the owners of WeatherUnderground.com an offer they could not refuse and bought the company. Promises were made to subscribers that IBM would devote resources to the site to keep it vibrant and operating. Then, over about five years, IBM started pulling programmers onto other tasks. Help inquiries started to take days or weeks to receive a reply. The previous owners admit that they no longer have influence over these changes and acknowledge the site has regular problems. Today, WeatherUnderground.com still exists, but it is progressively bug ridden. For instance, they made an iOS "widget", but it's broken more often than not. Fixes are slow to come. IBM's commitment went away as their eyes wandered to other business opportunities. Adobe Lightroom Adobe dominates the computer photo processing sphere, both with professionals and high-end amateurs. Adobe Photoshop is well known; Adobe Lightroom is a rich but easier to use similar product. About a year ago, Adobe announced that they were splitting Adobe Lightroom into "Lightroom CC Classic" and "Lightroom CC". The classic version is the traditional, well developed product. The Lightroom CC version is an all web-based product. Both products are subscription based. Naturally, the new web-based version costs significantly more, such as requiring a subscription to a large online storage capacity for photos; there is no local storage option as with the classic version. The new "Lightroom CC" as rolled out is quite limited with many many features of the classic version unavailable. Adobe promises the web-based version will grow and develop. They also say they will continue to develop the classic version. But not many users believe this story. In typical Adobe fashion, they screwed up the product naming so it is quite hard to distinguish one from the other even with careful knowledgeable reading. The names "Lightroom CC Classic" and "Lightroom CC" do not convey the differences at all. Which to buy? Adobe pushes subscriptions to the new Lightroom CC almost exclusively. Lightroom CC Classic is still available, but it is extremely hard to locate on the Adobe Lightroom pages. A user needs to know exactly what to look for or they will be led to the "new and improved", more expensive but limited functionality product. The moral with these two examples is how easy it is to take the eye off the ball as a product buyout goes forward, effectively abandoning a well functioning product and going to a substandard, broken or dysfunctional product. Is this progress? Yes, it is. Time does march on, but good products quickly get forgotten -- this happens within 2-3 years. Within 5 years, the old well functioning product is almost surely forgotten. Data gets orphaned. Users go looking elsewhere for the functionality they want. Rarely does the new product become the new standard. The best idea I can think of for Toodledo is to split the product into a "classic" version and a new "premier" version, as KurtMainWorkSpace proposed above. This message was edited Jul 08, 2018. |
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john_borwick |
+1 to the "Legacy Toodledo" concept. Having an "old Toodledo" / "legacy Toodledo" option should help the existing customer base if you do plan to make significant changes to the tool.
Toodledo can be highly customized, which is great. I like being able to type "every weekday" in the recurrence field, for example. However, I'm sure each customization has corresponding maintenance costs. If you do want to make the tool simpler, you could do that in the "new ToodleDo". (Personally, I'd call it "Toodledo 2".) People could then choose to switch. Alternatively, you could let people "opt in" to these features the way we can opt into the fields that show up. On the mobile front, +1 for Ultimate ToDo List. That's the only Android task app I've found that has the same customization of Toodledo, e.g. being able to build custom searches on the fly. |
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RicardoSwe |
A couple other thoughts --
I use Toodledo as integrated with other products. For instance, there is a great book on time management that is fully based upon Toodledo -- The One Minute Todo List, by Michael Linenberger. (Amazon.com link won't post properly). The author made arrangements with Toodledo for one-click implementations of options to fit the time management scheme. I use this time management system all the time and the "linkage" between the author's methods and Toodledo is critical. I have had to "redo" the "linkage" once or twice. I worry that this feature will disappear. Toodledo has a long list of dozens of 3rd party integrated tools. https://www.toodledo.com/tools/directory.php I have tried many of these, such as 2Do for iPhone. What will happen to the linkages between all these products? I can only assume the efforts to integrate with other tools will continue. This message was edited Jul 08, 2018. |
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KBC1-Gold-Expired-May2020 |
Posted: Jul 08, 2018
Score: 0
Reference
OOOPS... delete my comment above about ToodleDo Opus1. I was not aware there is another product called Opus One. OOOPS!
I made the appropriate edits to that message. This message was edited Jul 08, 2018. |
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duenstl |
Who's the experienced and professionel GTD-expert on your team?
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daniel |
I have used a number of products incl Zenkit, Trello and MS Planner and Todo. Without a doubt all have better looking modern interfaces . Unfortunately, none can touch ToodleDo with it's speed and cost effectiveness. Quite frustrating, as I always come back to ToodleDo.
Features I would add ( as LONG AS ToodleDo IS UNBROKEN) Check list on a task with auto complete when all tasks are checked.- This is simplified sub tasks Better Date views - or maybe integration with Outlook or Google Calendar Kanban views filtered on a tag @westerdaled This message was edited Jul 08, 2018. |
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KBC1-Gold-Expired-May2020 |
Posted: Jul 08, 2018
Score: 0
Reference
Ricardo wrote >> one as "Toodledo Classic" and another as "Toodledo Premier",
------------------------------------------ Premier and Premiere mean "first," so that would logically be an appropriate name for the original / classic platform. If you want names that mean new or better, I suggested ToodleDo Labs or ToodleDo Advanced (above). But let's not try to do any naming or branding in a group discussion like this. That is usually not done in a public forum. They need to look at a lot of criteria related to global and cultural definitions and meanings, trademark availability, domain name availability, and other marketing and legal issues. Exposing a naming idea to the public too early can create disadvantages for them moving forward -- someone may steal the domain name or trademark ideas, and other disadvantages. I was only making an illustration about two platforms: one that is frozen and stable for conservative loyal classic users who don't want any changes and a second environment for the people with new ideas for innovations that they want to discuss and experiment with. Both of these user segments are legitimate and should be addressed, but they do have different and sometimes incompatible goals and desires.Too many changes can destroy and drive away a current, satisfied customer base / and not enough changes and innovations can discourage new users and make it more difficult to compete with other agile competitors. One of Sam's biggest challenges will be how to keep old customers happy while finding new ones that want something new and different. And doing that while keeping costs in check and increasing revenue and profits. Running a SaaS software company is not easy, and that is why such a high percentage of them fail. There are something like 40 to 60 software products (maybe more?) in the same category as ToodleDo. This is not going to be easy for Sam and his team. Ciao... |
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aleding |
My .02...
Yes - I am worried as well - only natural for we are collectively in fear of the unknown future for a tool we all love and rely on heavily. But...that worry is truly not of any benefit for it can't be mitigated until that future becomes present at which point things will either be good or bad... Advice Point #1: To the new guys - SNAPSHOT ToodleDo as it is right now. For many (me included), what exists at present is definitely not broken and therefore, need not be tweaked...at least not much. So, snapshot this incredibly functional "known-good" and if things do get screwed, you know which home to run back to. Advice Point #2: The new guys again - As quick as possible, allay some of the fears we have and put a stake in the ground re: your intentions, how important is revenue\profitability, do you plan on a price increase - if so when and how much, what do you see wrong with ToodleDo (if anything), are any other players involved now or plan to be involved, etc. All of these things - and more - should have been known before you purchased...Ignorance is only cured thorough enlightenment - so then, do us the honor... Advice Point #3: To the users - hey folks, it is what it is...not to be terribly flip but if they break it, they do own it. And of course, we can then opt to move on. I personally need to believe, for right now at least, that aside from $$$, they wanna do good things for lots of good users. But again, if not, then we can always fire up a new app and call it "TooldePip", "MyToodle"...I dunno...in any event, let's hope that doesn't come to pass. Remember, worst case...we still have Excel... :-) |
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Brigitte Gemme |
I am late to the party, but thanks Jake for creating, developing and supporting this terrific product through the years. I have been a paid user for... I don't know, maybe 10 years? Long enough to have it support me through a PhD, a couple of grown-up jobs, and launching a business. Today, it is the "trusted system" that allows me to manage my professional, business and family activities (I am a mom of 2). THANK YOU for this great tool.
To the new owners: welcome! I (obviously) echo the concerns above, and I will be the first to commit to "Toodledo Classic." I have no time and interest in transferring my system to a different to-do list management tool, and I am totally fine if you put a price tag on that. Peace of mind is priceless. I look forward to chatting with you! |
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PersKurt2015 |
To reinforce my earlier points above, as the lists of new feature requests and software enhancements continue to pour in from all of the creative and innovative people that use ToodleDo and want to do more and more...
I like ToodleDo the way it is right now, and I don't want any changes at all, except for required bug fixes and essential updates needed to comply with regulations (like GDPR), new security measures, and evolving communications protocols -- ALL of which should be invisible to me. To this end, I just paid to extend my ToodleDo accounts into the middle of the year 2020 in hopes that nothing will change and that today's version of ToodleDo stays the same, so that I can keep doing what I have been doing. I encourage Sam and his team to compile all of the great ideas that they have plus all of the change requests and feature enhancements coming in from so many bright and ambitious people. Channel all of that energy into creating an all new solution that attracts a new generation of personal users and enterprise users / all of whom hopefully will be willing to pay what it will take to fund the desired new developments. Maybe the new platform should have a completely different name? (Insert name here) "from the company that brought you ToodleDo." But I really hope that today's ToodleDo (Classic) does not get destroyed in the process of trying to jam in too many new features and making too many changes in an effort to grow the customer base and increase profits. That strategy has sadly killed a lot of wonderful software products over the past 40 or 45 years... This message was edited Jul 08, 2018. |
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Jim_Lewis |
I think bifurcating the product is a recipe for disaster. What do the third-party app makers do? Support both the new and the classic ToodleDo, etc.,??? If the problem with ToodleDo is that it's becoming marginalized by competition from new kids on the block, etc., changes that atomize ToodleDo users into different unrelated groups will further weaken rather than strengthen ToodleDo in the marketplace. And increase support costs for ToodleDo owners, etc., maintaining two codebases, running different server stacks, ….
Just look at Microsoft hanging onto Windows and Office. "We have the recipe for success! Why should we change anything one iota from what we're doing, etc." And look where that's lead them. Development of Windows apps is relatively dead. I don't think ToodleDo would have been up for sale if its previous owners had the real recipe for success (if it looks like it's going to take over the world, would you sell your product? or just bring on new support that helps you retire to the Bahamas with martini in hand?!). So I think the best thing for ToodleDo users to do is seek to preserve what's best and essential but suggest improvements that will help sustain ToodleDo in the marketplace. Those who think ToodleDo is already the best that can be must not have traveled very far in the PIM/CRM space (I've gone through Lotus Agenda, Ecco, Outlook, Pocket Informant, MS BCM, etc). There are so many aspects of its interface and use that are incredibly clunky, e.g., screens where some important navigation options are only at the bottom of a very long web page, etc. New functionality that looks like it's just tagged onto the old, like LISTS. Why shouldn't LISTS be well-integrated with TASKS (cross-referencing, etc). Take a cue from Wunderlist, etc., where a list item can be a task, etc. The new owners of ToodleDo have assured us that change will be a very measured, studied process. Rather than claim that nothing needs to be changed one iota and thinking any change will destroy "classic" ToodleDo, I'd say put energy into improving ToodleDo to help insure it will be around on into the future. As soon as someone pulls the plug on the servers because they can't pay the electric bills, it's over. So let's help the new owners pay those electric bills by making ToodleDo a stronger competitor in the marketplace and not resting on the "laurels" of classic ToodleDo as the lights go out..... This message was edited Jul 08, 2018. |
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GSP1963 |
@ Jim_Lewis:
I agree with you completely. This idea that new owners of an application are going to dedicate money and resources to divide their effort into one version called, essentially, "Before We Got Involved," and a new version is a fantasy. This isn't done, and for a couple reasons: First, who wants to approach a new business with the mindset of, "Well, chances are we can't improve it"? And second, who wants to add layers of unnecessary infrastructure and expense onto a project before you've even gotten the ball rolling? So while I understand the impulse of some users to urge the new owners to create a "Before You Got Involved" version of Toodledo, I don't think it's ever happening nor should it. The best that the seasoned users of Toodledo can hope for--I'm talking about people who've used the product for at least a couple years here--is to do what we can to ensure that the new owners understand what makes Toodledo special so that they can build on those strengths and not undermine them. I haven't yet seen so much as a sentence from the new owners that indicates they appreciate how customizable the app is and how unusual that customizability is in the marketplace. Because of that, I've been trying to make the case that Toodledo is a sophisticated Tinkertoy, if you will, in the task manager world, where users can choose what fields they want to include and exclude, reorder the display of those fields, and build an unlimited number of complex searches to find and display their data just the way they want. In an earlier comment in this thread, I listed four features of Toodledo that I regard as sacrosanct and explain why. I also agree with your assessments, Jim, of where Toodledo can be improved. It is by no means a perfectly designed product, either from a UI perspective or a design perspective. If a team of software developers start with an appreciation of Toodledo's unique strengths, great things could happen. (I can't stress enough how important the introductory clause of that last sentence is.) This message was edited Jul 08, 2018. |
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2getstuff |
I use this for organizing home and work. The free version is almost perfect for my needs. One improvement on the android platform I'd love to see: when adding tasks, to be able to save the one I am entering and start a new one without having 3 clicks.
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GarethQ |
Congratulations Jake and to the new owners/team Sam, Ramon, Anant. Looking forward to the next level. I've been a Toodledo user for as long as I can remember and maybe started paid subscription in 2011. I've tried one or two others every year but there's just a lot of special things in Toodledo that I hope will continue to be there. All the other may have better looking UI but flexibility and customizable features of Toodledo is just awesome!
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cr_3 |
Thanks so much to Jake and the team for making such a great product!
I've been dependent (and I mean that) on Toodledo for years. My life wouldn't run without it. The sheer thought of "product changes" brings terror. I think I need to start backing up more ... and/or find a backup plan? I'm happy to be on a panel if you want people who can provide input as you consider new ideas, aka I'll be a test participant. |
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ishayahu |
Posted by pawelkaleta:
When it comes to feedback you'd like to gather, I think it's already collected here, on this forum, dozens of features requested since a long time that you can use as a starting point. ... Of course, the fresh piece of information may become useful, but in my opinion, addressing what users requested since years would be the best proof of your commitment to Toodledo users. Also many features requests are in support tickets. At least by me. And it would be cool to have a roadmap of that featuers |
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dane.ryan |
Posted by apb123:
- The IOS app isn't very good and needs a total redesign imo.I am using 2do. . ^ This 100%. I actually stumbled across the Toodledo service whilst using 2Do as the Apple syncing was rubbish. Now I use both products; namely the iOS app is not fantastic but more so I love the 2Do app and have been using it for years. If I lose this ability to sync to a 3P app, then I will be stopping my membership (which like many I am paid member for many years). |
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