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DSM_2 |
Hmmm. This problem may be AddOn related in Firefox, but it's strange that only the Outlines/Lists tabs are affected. I restarted Firefox with AddOns disabled and the problem doesn't show up anymore. When I go back to normal mode, the problem returns. The problem is still there in normal mode and the addons I have are:
1. ActiveInbox 4.0.5.17 2. Evernote Web Clipper 5.9.0 3. McAfee Site Advisor 3.6.3 4. mediaplayerconnectivity 0.9.4 5. Microsoft .Net Framework Assistant 0.0.0 6. Tiddlyfox 1.0alpha18 7. Toodledo 1.8.2 8. Yahoo Toolbar 3.1.0 |
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DSM_2 |
Everything happens normally if I use IE 8.0 on the same system. No new browser tabs are created if I click on the different Toodledo tabs. This suggests that the tabs mechanism in Toodledo is different for Tasks/Notes vs. Outlines/Lists, but the difference is not significant to IE while it is to Firefox.
I take it you do not see this behavior? |
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DSM_2 |
Hmmm. Stranger and stranger. What I see is this:
1. Firefox v25 on Windows XP visiting toodledo.com. Pin the Toodledo tab in Firefox. Firefox has several extensions added (most notably, EverNote and FireBug). 2. Click on Notes tab and the Notes section is brought up in the current Firefox tab (ie. the Tasks section). 3. Click on Outlines tab and the Outlines section is brought up in a *new* Firefox tab. 4. Click on Lists tab and the Lists section is brought up in the current Firefox tab (ie. the Outlines section). 5. Close what is now the Lists tab in Firefox (ie. go back to the Notes tab). 6. Click on the Lists tab and the Lists section is brought up in a *new* Firefox tab. 7. Click on the Outlines tab and the Outlines section is brought up in the current Firefox tab (ie. the Lists section). 8. Note that 6 & 7 is the reverse of 3 & 4. Also, note that this behavior is consistent for me across restarts of Firefox and the computer. Interesting... |
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DSM_2 |
Posted Nov 25, 2013 in: My GTD setup - Toodledo, Evernote, Todo, notability, iThoughts
Score: 0
If your primary entry into task management is Gmail, you might consider ActiveInbox (http://www.activeinboxhq.com) as an add-on to Firefox. It's a very useable GTD system that makes use of Gmail's tagging capability. I don't use it enough because I find myself in other systems a lot which it doesn't support. However, since Gmail tags are shown as IMAP folders, you can mostly make use of ActiveInbox without ActiveInbox by simply setting up your tags according to the ActiveInbox style and then using the standard Gmail tools (including Gmail apps on iPhone/Android). Since I moved back and forth between home (where I often use Gmail) and work (where I use Outlook), ActiveInbox wasn't everywhere I needed, so I haven't used it all that much.
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DSM_2 |
I just noticed that, in Firefox v25, if I click on the Outlines tab, a new tab is created for the outlines whereas clicking on Tasks, Notes, or Lists just uses the current tab. They should all behave the same and just use the current tab.
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DSM_2 |
Hmmm. I'll have to look at the API more. However, I don't think you can implement anything in the API unless the Toodledo DB implements the relationships (dependency and subtask). In the long run, from Toodledo's perspective, if subtasks/dependencies are useful/standard use cases, it might be less intensive for them to implement the status change than to have (most?) all users scan the system via the API on a regular basis to see if the status needs changing.
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DSM_2 |
Interesting, but I would prefer to have dependent tasks over subtasks. However, I think both can be achieved by changing your proposed SubTasks field into a DependentTasks field and just not implementing the recursive action or, perhaps, two fields -- SubTasks and DependentTasks. The SubTasks field would keep the functionality you describe above while the DependTasks would have similar functionality. The two fields would be to implement the following two rules:
1. If all SubTasks are COMPLETE, then set the current task to COMPLETE. (You could add in your rule of marking all subtasks as COMPLETE if the current task is set to COMPLETE.) 2. If all DependentTasks are COMPLETE, then set the current task to NEXTACTION. I think that would cover all of the standard use cases. Some people might not want the rules, so the implementation of the rules could be a preference setting for each user. In the long run, however, I think the scripting approach would be more flexible. For instance, on top of the above rules, you could check the date and implement a lag time between when a dependency is COMPLETE and the current task starts up. Or you could check other non-task fields -- you get the idea... |
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DSM_2 |
As noted elsewhere, active subtasks could be done via scripts like:
if TaskB.status == COMPLETE and TaskC.status == COMPLETE then TaskA.status = COMPLETE However, you wouldn't be able to do passive subtasks (ie. tasks that are merely marked as the child of another task). That might not be an issue for most people, though. |
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DSM_2 |
Posted Nov 14, 2013 in: How to define time interval for task?
Score: 0
If the task must be done this week or month, then why not set the due date to the last day of the week/month and the start date to the first day of the week/month? You could also set an alarm to go off sometime before the start date (although you'll have to set it based upon the due date -- Toodledo doesn't do alarms based upon start date).
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DSM_2 |
Hmmm. Yes, you're right. Subtasks could either be that two tasks are simply related as parent/child or that the parent task should be set to COMPLETE once all the children are COMPLETE. The second approach could be done as a script say:
if TaskB.status == ACTIVE || TaskC.status == ACTIVE then TaskA.status = ACTIVE if TaskB.status == COMPLETE && TaskC.status == COMPLETE then TaskA.status = COMPLETE or something similar... |
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DSM_2 |
Interesting point.
How about this? The problem with sub...tasks that the Toodledo developers seem to be having is display. What if they implemented a field similar to the Tag field called TaskIDs. Then they would have a GUI that would allow one to pick other tasks to add to the current task. The user could create a hierarchy or a DAG or a dependency list or combination as he sees fit. For you, moving a hierarchy from one parent to another would simply be adding the new parent to and removing the old parent from the TaskIDs list. This reduces the functionality from the scripting approach I suggested above in that they'd either have to set some assumption on what happens when a dependent task is COMPLETED or leave that to the user (similar to what they have now), but it stays close to the current Toodledo interface. After that, using the Toodledo API, someone might be able to come up with a display program (like a mindmap) that would visualize the graph of the tasks. This probably wouldn't be that hard to do with some scripting and the open-source GraphViz/InstaViz program. |
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DSM_2 |
BTW, if PRINT is not ready for primetime, why not remove the function from the display until it is?
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DSM_2 |
If you had functionality that allowed you to completely deal with subtasks, but not display them as subtasks (ie. indents) in the Toodledo task table, could you live with using Outlines for the display of your task hierarchy?
What I suggested elsewhere is adding a scripting capability to Toodledo that would allow a script associated with a task to query the status of another task and set the current task's status. Something like: If TaskA.status == COMPLETE && TaskB.status == COMPLETE then TaskC.status = NEXTACTION Using this, you could easily implement subtasks to any number of levels as well as implement sibling tasks, dependencies, and so on. Plus, if Outlines would suffice for display purposes, then there is little that needs to be done to the display of tasks in Toodledo (just add the ID field and Script field). Finally, the scripting could be enhanced to allow querying of all task fields, checking the time, using functions, updating task fields, and so on, but this enhanced functionality could be phased in over time. |
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DSM_2 |
Actually, I still think people are looking at this in the wrong direction -- that is, they are looking at it top-down when they more often think bottom-up. How often in your personal projects do you really think of breaking down the tasks into subtasks and subsubtasks and so on? You often do this for large scale projects at work, but at home?? More often, I think you're more likely to create a bunch of seemingly unrelated tasks and then realize that TaskD can't be done until TaskA, TaskB, and TaskC are completed. This does *NOT* imply a hierarchy and is the problem with subtasks.
Perhaps a more elegant and flexible way of implementing this with Toodledo is not through pre-defined task relationships, but rather through open-ended scripting. That is, the following: 1. Add a Script field to all tasks. 2. Expose the (read-only) ID field of all tasks. 3. Implement a scripting language where we could say: if TaskA#.status == COMPLETE && TaskB#.status == COMPLETE && TaskC#.status == COMPLETE then TaskD#.status = NEXTACTION 4. Initially, the scripting language could be simple like above, but later could be enhanced to allow access to all task fields, perform calculations on task fields, include many types of functions (like Time), and so on. This would be a killer! |
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DSM_2 |
Oh! So you're saying that, at this time, there is no acceptable way of doing printouts. Yuck...
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DSM_2 |
Actually, I would use task dependencies for personal projects all the time, but not subtasks (ie. hierarchy). Subtasks imply some deep thought on how a task goes together and, for personal tasks, I rarely go to even one level in that type of thinking. However, as I put together personal projects, I'll often say I have to do OtherTask before I do ThisTask. There may be no other (hierarchical) relationship between the tasks in my mind requiring me to think any more deeply than this. Also, task dependencies are often m-m whereas subtasks are 1-m, so there is a disconnect. Having a task management system that takes this information in and can later use it to tell me what can be done next would be very powerful.
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DSM_2 |
I just did a printout from the Toodledo web-page in (I believe) grid format from Firefox. The printout came out in an extremely small font (I really can't read it). Is there a recommendation on how to control that and how to get the best output from Toodledo? Things like font size and wrapping?
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DSM_2 |
I view subtasks as a specific instance of the more general task relationships. Having a general definition for task relationships implemented in Toodledo should allow the users to implement parent-child relationships, task dependencies, sibling relationships, task ordering, and so on with no change to the form.
Visualizing this as a single list is probably not possible. A many-to-many relationship (of which 1-m and 1-1 are subsets) is not possible in a single list (unless your list contains items that are themselves lists). Even an outline cannot represent well many-to-many relationships. You might be able to do a 3D list, but visualizing that is very complicated and probably not easily comprehended by the users. The simple approach is probably to represent it as two tables in the interface where you enter the task, click on the relationship button, then enter a list of relationships. For most people, this may be enough as the added value of more flexible relationships might outweigh the simplistic nature of entering the information. As you can, you can provide other ways of visualizing the information (generated outline or mindmap anchored at a particular task, task chains, etc.). If each relationship has a type (parent/child, dependent, sibling, etc.), your visualization tool can choose the relationship that is appropriate for what the user wants to see. The issue here is that task management at home is not always representable as a hierachy (ie. outline). Users will create tasks as needed and then realize (perhaps much) later that the task is related to other tasks they have already setup. Re-arranging into a hierarchy might not work with their thinking, so a general relationship is needed. Complicated, yes, but I think you're seeing that users are running into issues that need the many-to-many relationship. |
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DSM_2 |
Something is not right here...
On the Toodledo web-page, when viewing All Tasks, if Sub-Tasks is set to Inline, then I see all of my tasks. However, if Sub-Tasks is set to Indent, then 5 of my tasks are hidden. I have previously said to turn off the filters, so, other than sub-tasks, no other filter should be in-play. How do I determine which tasks are being hidden and why? |
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DSM_2 |
Jake,
Sub-sub-tasks is really a part of the general idea of a many-to-many relationship between tasks. That would have to be added to Toodledo as a separate table and that might be far easier to add than trying to shoe-horn sub-sub tasks into the current Toodledo interface. The requirements would be: 1. Every task added to Toodledo would be given a unique ID. 2. A separate table consisting of two IDs would show which tasks are related. 3. The separate table might include a reason for the relationship (parent/child, sibling, Just4Info). 4. Tools could then be added to Toodledo for traversing the task dependency tree and having things happen based upon that. 5. For instance, if all dependent tasks are completed, then the current task is moved to NextAction. |