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Ummagumma

Posted Feb 17, 2020 in: How long to process upgrade?
Score: 0
It appears that for the past few months the service has been running on autopilot with no involvement from the new owners. I’d file a chargeback while you still can. I don’t think Toodledo is going to last much longer.

This message was edited Feb 17, 2020.
Ummagumma

Score: 0
> How hard can it be to put out a basic app that simply shows you the current list of tasks for the day, or something similar?

It's method dependent. You could have it working with anything depending on the method you use to select tasks for the day.

E.g. I use Due date and Top priority attributes. Any tasks with Due date on Today will get reviewed and either selected to be worked on, or rescheduled, any task with Top priority will be worked on today. (I don't have much use for Priorities otherwise. But the same could be achieved using tags).

Since practically every task manager supports Due Dates and Priorities, this method works with all of them. It's just the matter of finding one that provides the most bells and whistles (e.g. filtered views).

When a task has a real deadline, I just put it in the subject line in front of text, in YY.MM.DD format (so that it could be sorted in due date sequence).


This message was edited Feb 06, 2020.
Ummagumma

Score: 0
From what I recall, Outlook will not allow you to have a task with Start Date but no Due Date. It will add a Due date whenever you open the task in it.

If you are using Start dates for task visibility filtering and Due date for actual deadlines, this is not going to work too well.

2Do is a fantastic app but the limitation of Toodledo sync has been there from day one. The developer blames Toodledo's limitations on the number of sync tokens, if I recall correctly.
Ummagumma

Posted Jan 30, 2020 in: Pros/Cons of Alternatives to Toodledo.
Score: 0
IMHO, MLO was created by a Russian developer. It's a fairly old and well established system. However, it has a very specific way of doing things which locks you into a specific tool and if at any point you can no longer use it, you are back to all the pain of abruptly changing your entire task management system.

The best system - for me at least - is the one where every essential feature is so simple that I can use it on any platform or service.
Ummagumma

Posted Jan 30, 2020 in: Pros/Cons of Alternatives to Toodledo.
Score: 0
Totally YMMV, but the more bells, whistles, and interdependencies a task manager has, the more time is an average user likely to spend managing task attributes rather than managing tasks.

And GTD was a great system in the era of physical papers and hanging folders, that was initially designed as a workaround for the not-yet-existing due date reminder and quick task sorting functionality. In my honest opinion, the "pure" GTD is grossly overdone in the modern era, and the fact that it's still alive and actively promoted is a fantastic marketing achievement by Dave Allen and his company.

Now, hiding and waiting for all the flack ;)


This message was edited Jan 30, 2020.
Ummagumma

Posted Jan 09, 2020 in: Toodledo Update August 2019
Score: 0
Posted by Duo:


Ummagumma,

Thank you for this detailed response and sorry about taking so long to reply; I'm just not on the Toodledo site very much these days.

Unfortunately that review and the other information only increases my own worries. I was trailing TickTick over six years ago because I was never really happy with Toodledo but when I wanted to use it for business purposes I wasn't comfortable putting work tasks, or even the more personal tasks there, so I went all in with Toodledo for a while and kept testing various tools.

I stopped using Toodledo quite a while ago and switched to Todoist but I'm still looking for the tool that fits me and my workflow.


Duo,

No thanks needed, we're all in the same boat.

When I was looking for a possible replacement for Toodledo, RTM seemed like the closest match based on my needs.

However, I grew tired of having to adapt to new apps or services every 5-6 years, and realized that instead of finding an app that suited my specific Toodledo-centric workflow, I had to change my workflow in a way that would work with even the simplest, most common apps and services.

Here's the setup I've been using for a fairly long time now, and it works well regardless of what tool or platform I use it on.

https://www.toodledo.com/forums/2/26261/-121757/read.html#jump
Ummagumma

Posted Dec 12, 2019 in: Toodledo Update August 2019
Score: 0
Posted by Duo:
Posted by Ummagumma:
Over a year ago, probably in 2017, when I first started looking at TickTick, someone posted the address of the person who owned the domain, and it was in mainland China. I can probably still find the information.

I just checked, and now it's registered through some company in the US. TickTick team says that some of them are in China, some in the US, and that the non-Chinese data is stored on AWS servers in the US. This is all fine and dandy, however if their management or the key members of their team with access to user data are located in China, the physical locations of servers don't mean squat. It's extremely easy to apply pressure to someone in a country like China, especially if this someone is a Chinese citizen or has Chinese citizen relatives / girlfriend / friends.

This is probably not a big deal if you are using it for personal tasks. Nobody cares that your credit card bill is due on Friday. But work-related tasks have far too much project data.


When you say some of them are in China, do you mean Hong Kong? If so please say that, rather than China (or Hong Kong, China, if you feel the need).

Also, as far as I know, they said that they formed while in the US (studying I think) then moved back to Hong Kong.

I used to use TickTick a lot and interacted with them from time to time and I don't remember them saying that some of them were in China.

Regarding data, I believe that they run two different systems; one for Mainland Chinese users, which would have data stored in China and one for everybody else, which has data stored on AWS in the USA. With all systems managed from Hong Kong.


1) They are indeed located in Hong Kong but someone found out some time ago that the person whose name the domain was registered to had a mainland address. See the first review here:

https://alternativeto.net/software/ticktick/reviews/

“ Ticktick.com was registered by a Damon Woo of Xihu Street, Hangzhou, Zhejiang Province, 310007, China.
His email address is damonwoo@gmail.com. (You can also find his phone number... and a whole bunch of other details.)”

Now, they’ve since changed the registration to what looks like some US intermediary company, but it’s clear that someone at TT lived in mainland China, or at least had an address there. And when I first read about this and checked for myself, about two years ago, it was still the same address.

2) This doesn’t really matter anyway because HK autonomy is quickly eroding and a small HK company will not have much leverage if the mainland authorities or criminals or a large corporation become interested in the data they have access to.

3) This is why the location of servers doesn’t mean much from data security perspective if the key people who can access them are located in a less secure place.

And this is why I just can’t trust them with my organization data. We are dealing with lots of somewhat sensitive projects (from business and technological perspective) across many industries and I just don’t want to have to self-censor every task and every note.


This message was edited Dec 12, 2019.
Ummagumma

Posted Dec 12, 2019 in: Toodledo Update August 2019
Score: 1
Over a year ago, probably in 2017, when I first started looking at TickTick, someone posted the address of the person who owned the domain, and it was in mainland China. I can probably still find the information.

I just checked, and now it's registered through some company in the US. TickTick team says that some of them are in China, some in the US, and that the non-Chinese data is stored on AWS servers in the US. This is all fine and dandy, however if their management or the key members of their team with access to user data are located in China, the physical locations of servers don't mean squat. It's extremely easy to apply pressure to someone in a country like China, especially if this someone is a Chinese citizen or has Chinese citizen relatives / girlfriend / friends.

This is probably not a big deal if you are using it for personal tasks. Nobody cares that your credit card bill is due on Friday. But work-related tasks have far too much project data.


This message was edited Dec 12, 2019.
Ummagumma

Posted Dec 12, 2019 in: Toodledo Update August 2019
Score: 1
My only gripe with TickTick is the service location. I did some digging and while the servers are claimed to be based in Hong Kong, it seems that the address for the owner of domain was in the mainland China. Not that there's going to be much distinction left, eventually, the way the events have been unraveling. China is notorious for industrial espionage and IP theft. Otherwise, it's a very nice service.
Ummagumma

Posted Dec 09, 2019 in: Toodledo Update August 2019
Score: 2
Posted by KBC1-Gold-Active:
But some folks seem to have unreasonable expectations. This is a very inexpensive SaaS app, and you cannot expect the world.

...

All of our complaining does not do much to solve the problems we face as a group.

...

Thanks...


I am afraid you are missing the point.

It doesn't matter whether it's an expensive or inexpensive app in the grand scheme of things.

What matters is that it's more expensive than most SaaS apps in the same category (Todoist, RTM, TickTick etc) while not having even close to the same name recognition and user base as the segment leaders.

And in the eyes of potential new users, Toodledo also has to compete with free offerings from MS, Apple and Google.

Given the extra price, the lack of name recognition, the lack of an up to date mobile client, it is going to be pretty hard to attract lots of new users.

So the question is, how long can the service keep afloat on the shoulders of existing users, many of whom seem to be leaving in droves ?

Asking this is not complaining.

The biggest problem with Toodledo was not the old code. The biggest problem - from the marketing perspective - was the lack of name recognition, an outdated and complicated interface that is not well suited to someone with simple task management needs, and a mobile app that is the opposite of being a joy to use. None of which has been addressed.

Raising prices to rewrite the old code on a fairly obscure product without making it any more appealing was a major mistake and so far there seems to be no willingness to correct it.
Ummagumma

Posted Dec 09, 2019 in: Toodledo Update August 2019
Score: 2
Well, let's summarize what we do know.

The new owners posted their Roadmap in the early November of last year.

It included, among other things, a new mobile app. Which may have not been a big deal for some people, but a huge one for me.

Now, we are into the 2nd year of their redesign effort.

No new functionality has been added (no major one, anyway), some features have been taken away. The development of mobile app (a must in 2019) is dead, for now at least.

While I still used Toodledo web, it worked fine - for the most part. The biggest problem I had was that it would sometimes randomly decide to revive deleted tasks. Which, the last I checked, it still does. While the code re-write is probably needed, it does not yet benefit any existing user.

So, when - and if - this code rehash project is finally done, the users will be left with a somewhat reduced list of the same features they had before, working the same they worked before. Only after this happens, they can expect to see any improvements or added features built using the new code. Of course, new code = new bugs.

With the glacial pace of this project so far, and the high user attrition rate, and the fact that Toodledo is now one of the most expensive task managers on the market yet wouldn't look too appealing to anyone not already heavily vested in the service, the future does not look good at all.

Given all that, the lack of frequent updates from Toodledo team is a very bad sign. And it hurts them by creating even more fear and uncertainty and making things look really bad.


This message was edited Dec 09, 2019.
Ummagumma

Posted Nov 09, 2019 in: New Pricing
Score: 1
Posted by sunboxtv:
@r2az ...I know all about Toodledo changing hands.
I have been around all over the forum on this, and i even posted in a few threads about this..

There is nothing wrong on selling an application..
But do not treat the application as it was just a product (buy cheap --> sell expensive)


You're giving them too much credit for planning.
Ummagumma

Posted Oct 14, 2019 in: Silver Subscription Renewal
Score: 0
Posted by mdhuang1:


Lifetime of the product, anyway...

My Gold subscription expired on 10/29 and I have no intention of renewing. Toodledo is all but dead on the mobile, which makes it useless to me, and from what I can tell there hasn't been any real improvements to the web app either. That lifetime subscription seems like a desperate money grab. If I am proven wrong, I would be happy.
Ummagumma

Posted Sep 06, 2019 in: Apple Watch App
Score: 0
IIRC the AW app was never updated for WatchOS 4. It only worked on 3.
Ummagumma

Posted Sep 01, 2019 in: Toodledo Update August 2019
Score: 0
Posted by AA:
Posted by Ummagumma:
Not having a workable modern mobile application is a huge problem.


You're exaggerating, I think. I use the Toodledo app on both Android and on iOS, and they're fine. Of course, I now only use Toodledo for tasks management and nothing else, the other sections being too buggy/unreliable.

In any case, given the current state of things, doubling or tripling subscription prices compared to Jake's era is insanity.

Guys, I knew it all along. As soon as I read the opening line of Jake's message announcing his sale of Toodledo ("Today is an exciting day for Toodledo", or something like that), I knew that was the beginning of the end. And here it is.


Well, with all due respect, I don't believe I am exaggerating at all.

Toodledo mobile app on iOS does not provide background sync. At least it didn't when I used it. So unless I use a 3rd party tool that did provide background sync capability, I would have to remember to manually sync tasks if I was on a business trip and wanted to be alerted on time.

It also does not support attachments - a premium feature that is one of the main perks of Gold subscription.

It doesn't support Apple Watch or widgets.

Basically, TD on iOS is an archaic app, just a little better than browser window.

While I was still using Pocket Informant, this didn't really matter. Then PI was sold and became subscription based - on top of a redesign that I personally could not stand. This is when I realized all the limitations of TD on iOS.

This is all a moot point, really.
Ummagumma

Posted Aug 31, 2019 in: Toodledo Update August 2019
Score: 3
Hello Anant,

While Marc's reply is a bit harsh, in my opinion, he does raise a few important points.

The lack of communication is very bad for user morale. Especially when there may have been some major shakeup at the top level which goes unannounced.

Giving _lifetime_ subscriptions to new members which are cheaper than _yearly_ subscription that the loyal existing users are expected to pay is very bad for morale, it's a slap in the face actually. And the potential new users who fail to get the lifetime subscriptions are still going to be turned off by a very high price of the service. This reeks of desperation. The whole new pricing strategy has been extremely poorly thought through and executed, it really needs to be revamped back to sane level taking into account Toodledo's actual standing in the market.

Not having a workable modern mobile application is a huge problem. Marc may be fine with pen and paper, but it's almost 2020 and you can't attract new users without it.

All the bugs that don't get fixed are a huge problem.

All together, it does not look good and paints a picture of a service in agony.

Communicate, that's now one of your most important jobs. Even if the service is not dead already, it certainly will be if you lose the trust of your loyal user base, the ones who keep paying the bills. New users are going to read this forum and it does not instill confidence in TD.

The best of luck.
Ummagumma

Posted Aug 24, 2019 in: Feature Roadmap and New Pricing Plans
Score: 3
It's a quick money grab, indeed. And it reeks of desperation.

Not surprising, either. I predicted this long ago. A service that has less name recognition than most competition, has an outdated interface, no modern workable mobile client or Apple Watch client, no Windows sync client or desktop app, yet is suddenly 2-3 times more expensive than its competitors. How would it do anything but scare off potential new users and drive away most of the old paying ones ? A few diehard old users willing to pay these prices aren't going to make up for these losses.

Greed and unrealistic expectations destroyed more than one product.

So, with this new "Lifetime" subscription drive, there's three possible outcomes:

1) They will keep the servers running for a few months / years without making any major changes to the program.

2) They will collect as many subscriptions as they can, then fold or sell to someone who may or may not keep the servers going or honor these lifetime subscriptions.

3) They will use the money to improve service, fix bugs, add mobile clients, and save Toodledo.

We'll see which way it goes... but this whole situation makes me really sad.


This message was edited Aug 24, 2019.
Ummagumma

Posted Aug 21, 2019 in: Moving On: Final Post
Score: 0
Posted by mjbernstein:

...
For me now the best part of Toodledo is chatting back and forth on the forum!!

Marc


Same here !


This message was edited Aug 21, 2019.
Ummagumma

Posted Aug 21, 2019 in: Moving On: Final Post
Score: 0
Posted by mjbernstein:
It seems strange but I am rediscovering paper and I realize that maybe the computer thing made it really easy for me to do the trivial stuff but really did not force me to review enough.

I am 53 so I grew up with paper planning and seems like riding a bike. Got right back up and feels great.


I am almost the same age and remember wishing that paper gave me reminders and was always there when I wanted to review it... to me, there's no way back :)
Ummagumma

Score: 0
The problem is, its current pricing structure can only be supported by enterprise users. There’s not enough laypeople willing to pay these subscription prices for a niche service with low name recognition in a highly competitive market.

All paid services are getting squeezed. I’ve been using the free MS ToDo for the past two months, started playing with it for sh*ts&giggles but find it actually very decent - whatever deficiencies it may have (hey, it’s Microsoft!) is offset by it having both a full featured desktop client (on W10 and Mac) and a full featured web access client, on top of mobile. It supports file attachments and a level of email integration (only with Microsoft or exchange accounts).

Apple Reminders are getting a major facelift, too. AFAIK separate alarm and due dates, attachments, and some level of natural input. Supposed to go live in September.

I am sure that Google will follow the lead, too.

To survive in this environment, a paid task service would need to pull quite a few tricks. And trying to sell to enterprises is .... a daunting task, to say the least. The dragons at the gates look at the bottom line and don’t understand why they must pay for something they are already paying for with Office 365 or G-Suite.

I am not an entrepreneur, but if it was me, I’d try to give Toodledo a major visual facelift, create simple yet attractive mobile clients, drop notes and habits and goals, and use blogs and social media to promote the heck out of task management systems that utilize TD’s unique features (start time, advance filtering etc). Sell a method, not a service, and make it as attractive as possible.

However the train has left already, I’m afraid...
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